Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 14

Various News Outlets | 8/12/05

[johnb838]

We don't need them at all. They ain't pimpin' anything can't be gotten a hundred other places in the carib. Happy island my arse.

[theophilusscribe]

My only fear about boycotting them is that it works and their economy is ruined—and then in a few years, some awful liberals vote to give them aid to < bleeding-heart liberal garbage > "help Aruba's empoverished residents decimated by the cruel, heartless US foreign policy." Blah, blah, blah . . . < / bleeding-heart liberal garbage >

The only thing worse than tourist dollars going to Aruba, it is TAX dollars. Talk about adding insult to injury!

[Fritzy]

I am with you on a boycott... I am so ready!

[truthluva]

Just the connection to Abdel Zouari and the Wyndham. He has managed both.

[theophilusscribe]

msmarple
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=1410&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=forearm&start=920
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:39 pm

Post subject: Re: Identity of witnesses

Lala'sMom wrote:
Please help me, I am confused on the two witnesses. Do we know both names or only one and which one is the gardner, the one we know or the one we don't have a name for? Sorry, I think I have confused myself getting dizzy here. Rolling Eyes


Okay, I'm giving this a try. ANYONE correct/add to; my feelings will not be hurt. The witness list is as elusive as every other fact.

Gardener. Name not released. Claims he saw JVDS, DK, a 3rd person in back seat of the Kalpoe car, at est. 2:30-3:00 am on 5/30, on a one-lane dirt road by a pond near the Aruba Racquet Club; a dark isolated spot. Based on his statement, LE drained this pond (it's the 2nd pond-draining that has occurred in this case). The significance is that the 3 amigos' stories have them at home at that time.

We initially heard he was an illegal, but that apparently was not the case. Reportedly he failed to show up for 2 court hearings, but abruptly turned up yesterday morning to the surprise of *some.* It may be that his failure(s) to appear were not failures after all.

Reportedly he could not positively ID Satish; he did ID JVDS, DK and the car. I understand they use photo IDs rather than lineups there.

Oh, and he's supposedly Jossy's nephew's gardener.

Landfill Guy. Possible name "Juni" or something that sounds similar to "Junior." AKA "Scavanger" (or as I prefer, the salvage guy). He collects metal from the landfill etc. for recycling. He claims that on Wed. 6/1, he saw several vehicles at the landfill, and the removal of a body from one, and its placement there in the landfill. There was an initial search of the landfill that may have been based on this tip. But Juni adamantly believes his story and ultimately took it to BHT, and TES came back specifically to search there. He helped TES every day and continued to help locals search for the week or two after TES left. His details were quite specific and he sounded pretty credible to me. Others think he's loco.

The gardener would not be eligible for any reward money. His story, if valid, does not lead to her return or whereabouts.

The salvager would be eligible, I guess. However, when he initially told his story to LE, the reward was $50,000 for the SAFE return of NH.

3 Fishermen. Fishermen in a boat off the beach near the Marriott didn't see anyone on the beach at 2:00-5:00 am (or thereabouts). They did see a white jeep-like vehicle on beach.

"Beach bum." One witness at the HI/Marriot beach who sees 3 men in a white truck bag a body, load it onto white vehicle, they drove out, turned left towards the lighthouse, turned onto a dirt road, dig a grave, bury the body, toss the shovel. This seems to have been during THE night (early 5/30). The 3 tried to take a tarp down at HI but couldn’t, then went to the garbage can at the Hyatt?, took bags out and wrapped the body. This witness is reported to be a daily beach visitor; told his story to someone at (Hyatt? Beach Patrol?), who in turn reported it to LE. The wife of the person who reported it to LE wrote to Jossy because apparently no action was taken by LE. Also, the witness has not been seen on beach since.

Hyatt? Employee.

[TexKat]

Aruba Lions Club

OUR WEB SITE : Our nice Web site was planned and built by our dynamic member Ln. Satish Daryanani, owner of the Aruba Internet Cafe and Aruba Digital City (www.arubadc.com), and is continuously revised, upgraded and kept updated by the members of the Aruba Lions' Administrative Cttee for Information Technology. The Aruba Lions expresses words of sincere appreciation to FL Satish for this magnificent state-of-the-art piece of ingenuity and also thank PDG PCC Frank H. Croes for his support and aid in feeding our Web site with updates about zone, district E-1 and multiple district E and other Lions information.

[Fritzy]

Interesting note.. re: our Tax $$$s..do we (U.S. Government) give any money, grants, development incentives etc to Aruba... or to the Netherlands for Aruba??? Does Aruba belong to any group of nation organizations that may have financial assistance from our Government? What about "trade" Agreements.... this would be interesting to consider...

[texasbluebell]

Thanks for the ping!

[texasbluebell]

Thanks!

[theophilusscribe]

According to the CIA World Factbook field listing of economic aid recipients ( http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2064.html ), Aruba received $26 million in 1995. Don't know of any aid more recent than that.

And I have seen in different posts that certain American colleges offer aid to incoming Aruban students.

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

Very sensitive, thoughtful, and perceptive post.

[hummingbird]

I can't figure out why she would get threatened to say something positive about paulus, well not positive per se :) ....

If true, maybe someone was afraid she would innocently slip and say something that meant nothing to her but might open the door to a lead for someone. Loose lips sink sips and what-not.

[theophilusscribe]

U.S. Agency for International Development [USAID] U.S. Overseas Loans and Grants, Obligations and Loan Authorizations. The report is commonly known as "The Greenbook."
http://qesdb.cdie.org/gbk/countrynotes.html#LAC

Latin America & Caribbean (Total) - Includes total U.S. Government loan and grant assistance to all countries and "not specified" regions listed in the Table of Contents under Latin America & Caribbean (Total). . . .

Caribbean (not specified)
Includes U.S. Government loan and grant assistance not assigned to a specific country within the Caribbean region; including assistance to regional organizations and programs. The Caribbean region is comprised of Antigua and Barbuda, Aruba, Bermuda, The Bahamas, Barbados, British Virgin Islands, Cuba, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Grenada, Guyana, Haiti, Jamaica, Martinique, Netherlands Antilles, St. Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and Grenadine, Suriname, Trinidad and Tobago and Turks and Caicos. Countries without a country page are included in Caribbean (not specified). . . .

Latin America & Caribbean (not specified)
Includes U.S. Government loan and grant assistance not assigned to a specific country or sub-region within the Latin America & Caribbean region; including assistance to regional organizations and programs.

______________

Looks like many of the Caribbean countries get lumped together for Aid.

I couldn't access the site for some reason, but here is the link for USAID: www.usaid.gov/locations/latin_america_caribbean

[Fritzy]

Very interesting... wonder how the $26M was to impact the Island... I bet the Caribbean organization has an office with all kinds of info.. I will try to secure some tomorrow AM... if we give them tax dollars.. could we use that as some type of leverage.. not so much for the specific Natalee case, but to establish a Tribunal to investigate the legal system, especially as it impacts visiting tourist and trade... drug traffic should fit in somewhere... also, we could have a trade sanction.. but I am not sure what they import.. will spend some time tomorrow talking a look at this.. if you are interested, I will post...
Cheers!

[theophilusscribe]

Great idea, Fritzy! Yes, please ping me. I would love to see what you find! :o)

[Rusty Roberts]

You got me there. It would then be time for the investigative reporters, who are not so recognizable to arrive and do their jobs.

However, if Parliament did such an overt motion, I would think at that point all pretense of happy island is lost. Right now they have the cover of saying one thing and doing another.

[monkeywrench]

They have unsecured ports. That should be enough to give us leverage, at a national security level. They are a big part of the drug problem, here. More leverage.

Haven't heard of any DEA drug busts lately. They could put a hurt on the bad guys, and yet, they don't...

[Dark Skies]

I wonder if Abdel Zouari is the same person as Abdullah or Abdallah Zoari...very interesting background.

I will follow up tomorrow to see if there is any significance in this name as pertains to Aruba.

[theophilusscribe]

Very true, Rusty, and a very good point. You know that our MSM would never let them live it down . . .

[TexKat]

http://www.aruba.com/msgbrd/read.php?f=1&i=135657&t=135657#reply_135657

Author: charles (---.setardsl.aw)
Date:   08-15-05 17:34

I can't help but notice how many vacationers come to our island and spend a great deal of their time in the resort. I ask myself why?

Rent a car or go on a tour but do anything to get out of your resort at least a couple of times. Take a look at the North coast. It has dark bueish-Green waters that pound the rocky coastline all day long. See how that mass of water carved out the rocks.

Walk down town and listen. Listen to the multi-languages and the music. Listen to the water lapping against the pier in front of the Crystal Casino.

Sit outside and eat and look at traffic flowing by. Tons of places to do that and they are all great. Salt and Pepper, Dushi Bagel and Tango Restaurant (just to name a few.

Drive to the lighthouse at night a take in the full view of all the hotels. A long and glistening coastline that still has pristine waters and instead of the sun in the day, has the night lights bouncing off the surf at night.

Vacation using all your senses. Feel the island and feel the people. Feel the rythm that is there and the pace that is certainly different than the one you came from.

Sit on the rocks at AYO. Ayo is a great word by the way. It means goodbye. It is where a long time ago, the fishermens wives stood to see off their fisherman husbands.

When possible, eat a meal on the water. Pinchos, Flying Fishbone and Marina Pirata are good choices. YOu can eat sitting over a carpet back home.

Sure we have steak but we also have other foods. Cubas Cookin is one of the places to go and enjoy art, music and Caribbean foods. Sit at RUMBAS in one of their outside tables while taking a rest from shopping. Go to a chinese restaurant and taste the difference in the island chinese food and the one back home.

Aruba has so much to offer but you just have got to get out of the hotel and experience it.

Wear a loose shirt and baggy pants. No one really cares and if they do - so what - tell them to stuff it! You paid for the plane ride and the lodgings so this is your show and you will perform on your time. If you can't get a rental car and a taxi seem s mundane, take the local bus and see how the locals get to work. Sure you might sweat - but then think of all the money people spend going to spas just to sweat and THAT IS BORING!

Remember that picture (been used in so many ads) of the couple walking down the beach at sunset holding their sandals? Damn man -do it! For many, it is what helped motivate you to come on down here in the first place. Just do it!

What is anyone going to do or say but admire the fact that you are taking one thing very seriously - nothing.

When you come down, leave those city habits at home (they could contanimate us down here). Park the stress next to the sedan or SUV and do something you normally wouldn't do - relax!!!

Are you a little overweight and not comfortable at the poolside? HELLO!! So is everyone else. If you do happen to see some fine bodies that are perfectly sculpted, admire them and the plastic surgeon that got them that way and move on to do what you like best - drink a beer or something else. Who cares if you are a tad on the juicy side? If you catch your hubby or wife looking at a lovely lady or one of those perfectly build beach guys, don't be upset - that loving partner deserves his visual vacation too and guess where he is parking his slippers tonight? By your bedside!

If you go to a casino and loose a couple of bucks, don't go back to win the money back -go to another casino and deposit some more. It is what it is all about.

Do you like the music at the managers cocktailand find your toe tapping? Stop with that toe tapping stuff and grab your partner and shake your butt like you never did before. Don't miss out on it cause chances are real good that there won't be steel drums waiting for you back home or a guy singing HOT HOT HOT at the PTA meeting.

Leave all that stuff that is giving you facial wrinkles back at the house and come find out why it is a good thing to vacation. You deserve it.

I remember talking to Big Papa when he came down the first time. "MAn" he said "I got to enjoy this cause we won't have another opportunity for a while. BULL!! The Big Papa Bear was down here again. Tells you something doesn't it?

Man do I love this island!

charles
arubafastphones.com