Brain Dead Boy Dies After Taken off Support

1010 WINS ^ | Apr 28, 2005 7:00 pm US/Eastern | 1010 WINS

[Calpernia]

A 13-year-old boy declared brain dead after the spread of an infection following a dental procedure was taken off a ventilator on Thursday, and his heart and other organs stopped soon after, a hospital spokeswoman said.

The mechanical ventilator for Teron Francis was turned off at the request of his family shortly before 5 p.m., Montefiore Children's Hospital spokeswoman Pamela Adkins said. The boy's heart and other organs stopped by 5:05 p.m.

``Our hearts go out to the family, and we hope they will be allowed to find peace,'' the hospital said in a statement.

Teron was declared brain dead _ a diagnosis the hospital said means ``the patient is dead'' _ and a death certificate was issued last week.

Earlier Thursday, his family asked state Supreme Court Justice Douglas McKeon in the Bronx to vacate his Monday injunction preventing the hospital from taking the teen off the respirator.

The court hearing was attended by two doctors and the boy's mother, Marcelyn Francis.

She testified that she had hoped Teron might recover, that she hoped for a miracle ``but that she now accepted the fact that he was brain dead and there was no chance for his recovery,'' McKeon said in a telephone interview.

``I issued an order that vacated my injunction which prevented the hospital from taking him off life support,'' the judge said.

McKeon said he had issued the restraining order to give the boy's family time to ascertain through a second opinion whether he was indeed brain dead. But the mother had instructed doctors not to revive her son if his heart stopped.

The hospital has said there was no need for the family to go to court because the hospital's long-standing policy is to support and accommodate the family in its decision.

``It is our policy to give the family enough time to come to grips with the realization,'' hospital spokesman Steven Osborne said earlier this week.

McKeon, who took a keen interest in the case and visited Teron in the hospital, said he felt he couldn't make decisions regarding the boy without going to his bedside.

``I said in open court,'' he recalled, ``that I felt that a judge could not be asked to make a decision whether someone lives or dies and not go to the bedside of that person.''

After signing the order Monday, McKeon said he felt that Teron ``became my own child.''

[qam1]

I wish I was making all this up and just playing around, it would have been a lot easier on my bank account.

But let me guess you make more money unnecessarily ripping out kids premolars than you do putting in veneers.

If you don't believe me you can straighten out teeth with veneers I will gladly go to my dentist who put them in and get my before & after pictures and post them.

If you don't know this, I'm thankful I found a qualified dentist instead of someone like you.

[TomB]

I wish I was making all this up and just playing around, it would have been a lot easier on my bank account. But let me guess you make more money unnecessarily ripping out kids premolars than you do putting in veneers

Look, your own experiences, true or not, doesn't mean a thing to the actual facts of treatment.

But let's look at your statement logically (heh). An extratction in my office costs $65. A single crown costs $600. Which makes me more money?

And the extraction of premolars (i.e. "serial extractions") are done in a very few ortho cases. I've probably only done 6 cases in the past year. You seem to think every ortho case needs extraction, and that isn't even remotely true.

If you don't believe me you can straighten out teeth with veneers I will gladly go to my dentist who put them in and get my before & after pictures and post them.

So how would he fix a class III malocclusion with crowns? How about a crossbite? Overbite? Overjet? What about a constricted palate?

If you don't know this, I'm thankful I found a qualified dentist instead of someone like you.

You know NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH, about ortho. You are utterly clueless and, I'm ashamed to say, rather entertaining. To you ortho is straight anterior teeth. Funny, my 6 year old understands it better.

[rmmcdaniell]

I knew a guy who was on fire, he tried to jump into river after wreck, but got stopped. The doctors said they should have let him jump, but the family insisted that he be kept alive. He lived for another week.

What???? a guy got into a wreck and was on fire. He tried to put out the flames by jumping into a river, but his family wouldn't let jump, and as a result he got burned so bad he died a week later?????????

[TheSpottedOwl]

Well you, I, and most rational minded people know that. I sure wouldn't want to pull shut off the respirator/ventilator on a brain dead relative, but after a few days, it has to be done, if the brain is flatline. You'd think most people would understand the difference between brain dead, PVS, and severely disabled.

.

[robertpaulsen]

As will I remind other posters of the fact that you are the most dishonest poster I have ever encountered in my years at FR. That you, and people like you, will bring this forum down to the level of DU. That if people like me weren't around to point out your distortions and lies and straw man arguments, we'd get to that point all the sooner.

Give up posting and go read a book ... fiction, of course. You can't even debate without lying -- why do you bother?

[Dustbunny]

The mechanical ventilator for Teron Francis was turned off at the request of his family shortly before 5 p.m., Montefiore Children's Hospital spokeswoman Pamela Adkins said. The boy's heart and other organs stopped by 5:05 p.m.

Obviously the ventilator was all that was keeping the boys body alive. His body finally died within 5 minutes. Heartbreaking but in this case they did the right thing. My heart and prayers go out the family.

[Dustbunny]

I don't know about this particular case, but if you have heart disease or other heart problems you're generally asked to take antibiotics before having dental work done.

Yep, we have two grand daughters with heart problems and they absolutely MUST take antibiotics prior to having any work done by the dentist.

[tazannie]

I recently had a very severe dental infection that several specialists could not diagnose. it lasted for about two months (with strong antibiotics), went away and came back even worse. it's been gone now for about 3 months, but it was extremely painful and disfiguring. I can easily see how it could spread and become fatal. very scary.

[TheSpottedOwl]

There you go again!

Your level of discourse proves to anyone who gives a rip, that you can't be bothered reading all the links. You have maintained a belligerent attitude throughout this whole ordeal.

I have to ask why??? Why are you being so damn nasty to the rest of us? Do you feel guilty for some reason? Does our moral condemnation of MS, Felos, and Greer hit a nerve with you? You go read a book. I suggest the Bible.

[cherry]

we let people die every day, thousands probably...

there are no court orders, there are no protests or guards or cruel and unusal punishments upon the poor patient......

the biggest problem with letting people die is that the relatives actually think it happens fast when it actually can go along very slowly, and sometimes family members will actually want the doctor to "do" something to make it go faster.....

[TomB]

If you don't know this, I'm thankful I found a qualified dentist instead of someone like you.

So where'd you go, doc?

Taking a refresher course on "prosthodontic ortho"?

[qam1]

So where'd you go, doc?

uuummm. It's the weekend, I had a lot to do, notice besides a quick one liner this morning my last post here was to you.

I was going to let it go but since you dragged me back in....

Taking a refresher course on "prosthodontic ortho"?

You are going to get one right now

I wish I was making all this up and just playing around, it would have been a lot easier on my bank account. But let me guess you make more money unnecessarily ripping out kids premolars than you do putting in veneers

Look, your own experiences, true or not, doesn't mean a thing to the actual facts of treatment.

LOL!

Oh believe me it it's true.

But the fact that you can't come right out an call me a liar shows there is a lot of truth to what I'm saying

But let's look at your statement logically (heh). An extratction in my office costs $65. A single crown costs $600. Which makes me more money?

$65 sounds really cheap for an extraction, You probably the cheapest dentist around, But I guess when it comes to your skill you get what you pay for.

But even $65 * 4 = $260

And what's your profit margin?

It doesn't cost you anything to pull a tooth but for a crown you have take molds, send them out to be made, etc so it probably comes to about the same.

At the very least it's extra money because how many 12 or 13 year olds are getting permanent cosmetic crowns?

So you make money when you yank their teeth out, make more later filling all the extra cavities, root canals and bonding and/or bleaching the discoloration they get because of the braces and you probably still get to put crowns on them later.

And the extraction of premolars (i.e. "serial extractions") are done in a very few ortho cases.

Baloney, I can't find a study with an exact number (not surprising since a sham field like orthodontics are going to do few studies as possible on themselves) but in studies where they looked at people who been scammed by orthodontists it seems to run from 45% to 75% of cases.

I've probably only done 6 cases in the past year.

Well duh!!!

Serial extractions are usually done by a specialist or dental surgeons since anesthesia is usually involved, they are not normally done by general practitioners. I'm surprised you did any.

Are you really dentist or are you just pulling my leg?

You seem to think every ortho case needs extraction, and that isn't even remotely true.

Here is a scary part about that, It seems they make it up as they go along

Consistency of orthodontic extraction decisions.

Ten orthodontists having completed specialist training, examined on two occasions 1 month apart, the complete pre-treatment records of 60 Class II division 1 patients representing the full range of dental malocclusion severity. At each session the orthodontist recorded whether their proposed treatment involved extractions. The level of agreement both between and within the orthodontists was evaluated with the Kappa statistic. Data analysis revealed that the level of agreement within the examiners was good, however the between examiner agreement was poor. It appeared that the orthodontists were applying different criteria in terms of the extraction decision and this has implications for orthodontic patients.

The one parameter they didn't look at was how much of a kickback the orthodontist was getting from the dental surgeon to rip out kids teeth. I bet that would show consistency.

One other thing about extractions

Here's an interesting quote from some dentist site

Ever notice that all the beauty pageant winners have those fantastic wide, full smiles? A recent study noted that nearly all the finalists in the major pageants have NOT had their premolars removed. The results speak for themselves.

Yes they do! You can never be your best after having your premolars ripped out.

I wonder how many orthodontist mention that little factoid!

If you don't believe me you can straighten out teeth with veneers I will gladly go to my dentist who put them in and get my before & after pictures and post them.

So how would he fix a class III malocclusion with crowns? How about a crossbite? Overbite? Overjet? What about a constricted palate?

With my teeth, The reason why the bottoms of my front two incisors were degrading was because after I had braces I had an overbite that I didn't have before. My current dentist fixed that with veneers.

When my wisdom teeth came in it forced my right secondary incisor out (overject) and slid my canine under it. He fixed that.  

Unfortunately since my premolars were ripped out by that bastard orthodontist of mine, I'm stuck with a buccal corridor my dentist can never fix.

But I won't deny maybe in a small 1-2% of cases orthodontics may be necessary, But the vast majority of the time you are being ripped off and extremely screwed if you have your premolars pulled out.

Here are some studies/results for you

Treatment planning for porcelain veneer restoration of crowded teeth by modifying stone models.

CLINICAL SIGNIFICANCE: Patients with malaligned teeth who are not willing or able to undergo straightening of their teeth with orthodontics, nonetheless may be able to attain straight teeth concomitant with the restoration of their teeth with modified porcelain veneer restorations. This article describes a straight forward treatment planning technique for altering study casts preoperatively, to accurately predict and guide the postoperative outcome.

and just do a yahoo search on Instant Orthodontics (there's probably a better term - but that's what I have) many of the sites have wonderful before & after pictures and you will see all the wonderful work done.

Here is one example

Before	After

Now if that mouth can be fixed with crowns, almost any mouth can.

Are you going to attempt to claim she would have been better off getting braces??

With braces, she would have had them on for years and her teeth wouldn't have been as white and most likely ending up instead more discolored. With crowns, she has a better result in only 2-3 visits.

Lucky she didn't come to you 1st.

There are many others like that in the links on the yahoo search. For the sake of your patients Learn from them!!!!!!!!

If you don't know this, I'm thankful I found a qualified dentist instead of someone like you.

You know NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH, about ortho. You are utterly clueless and, I'm ashamed to say, rather entertaining. To you ortho is straight anterior teeth. Funny, my 6 year old understands it better.

Here's a final study for you

Microbial attack of orthodontic adhesives.

Yeah, We all know how good microbes are for teeth.

So in conclusion, I hoped you learned something today. I've been on all kinds of message boards for years and I've rarely seen anyone admit they are wrong. But even if you won't admit I am right, I really hope out there in the "real world" when one of your patients is thinking about getting braces (especially if they are older) you do the right thing and tell them some of the things you learned here and there are better options instead of wasting their money on some quack orthodontist that could end up instead causing them lots of problems with their teeth.  

[qam1]

Pinging you to post #92

A more thought out response than my previous rant

[TomB]

It's painfully apparent you don't understand AT ALL what is involved in orthodontics. You seem to think that all it entails is straightening out the front teeth. The fact of the matter is that there are very few cases that I refer that only deal with straightening the anteriors. Since that point eludes you, I can't see how you can try to pass yourself off as some sort of expert.

In addition, your links to the prevalence of serial extractions don't say what you are implying. I have no idea how you get those percentages from those studies. Again, if you cannot understand a simple journal abstract, perhaps you shouldn't be posing as an expert.

And considering costs, my extraction fee is in line with all the others in my area. And I know about every patient of mine that has serial extractions wether I do them or not because in many cases it is up to me to write the referral, and in all cases I get follow up reports from both the oral surgeon and the ortho. You also seem to believe that premolar extractions are difficult. If you think that, that's yet ANOTHER reason you don't know what you are talking about.

If I were to extract 4 premolars I would make $260, without much overhead. However, if I were to do 6 anterior crowns at $600 each that's $3600, minus around $1200 for lab fees, I still make much more doing the crowns. For you to imply I'm doing better with extractions than crowns just proves further how out of touch you are.

I could go on, but why? Once again you proved that you don't understand a single concept in this kind of treatment.