Posted on 04/26/2005 7:55:09 AM PDT by jan in Colorado
"Ironically, not even the majority of Muslims want America to change. They left their old country for a reason and probably didn't want it to follow them."
... and I would guess for at least some of them that would include the freedom to NOT be singled out because of their religion.
In America, Muslims have the religious right to become former Muslims. They remain bound to Islam of their own free will. Should they decide escape such heresy, they will be under the protection of US law. Those who kill former Muslims will be judged as murderers.
This fact does not single out Muslims. Catholics, Jews, and people of all OTHER religious background have left and sometimes return to their original religion in accordance to their own free will.
Those who choose to follow Islam have, by their own free will, selected themselves for closer scrutiny by American security forces tasked with protecting the American people and the American Constitution.
If Muslims in America think that they don't have the option to walk away from Islam, then they might as well move to a resolutely Islamic state and suffer gladly under its own oppression. America won't be Islamic.
P.S., the election/support of Hillary Clinton guarantees death to Muslims wanting to escape Islam. As a lawyer, she's already successfully defended murderers who killed their own gang members wanting to leave their political/racial cult.
"Those who choose to follow Islam have, by their own free will, selected themselves for closer scrutiny by American security forces tasked with protecting the American people and the American Constitution."
You have fallen into the trap of thinking that we are fighting a religion, not fanatics who have hijacked a religion towards their own goals.
Luckily, President Bush knows the truth and is keeping on the correct course to destroy the true enemies.
"P.S., the election/support of Hillary Clinton guarantees death to Muslims wanting to escape Islam. As a lawyer, she's already successfully defended murderers who killed their own gang members wanting to leave their political/racial cult."
??? I don't think she has acted as a lawyer in any case since the Rose Law Firm days, and I never heard of them handling any kind of criminal law.
If you have a link, please provide.
We need to start grinding on her NOW about her past, but we can't just make things up or it will hide the true sordid past of the Clintons.
" Islam itself hasn't been hijacked since it hasn't changed in nature from its inception. "
Not true, the Hadith, from which most of the fanatic quotes and interpretations are taken, were not written for more then 200 years after Muhamd died.
"There's no formal succession to Mohamed and all subsequent "prophets" have equal claim to what Mohamed started."
Again not true - According to the Koran itself, NOONE has any claim to what he started and completed.
http://www.submission.org/had-corruption.html
Don't get me wrong here, I have no idea if the Koran is true or not, just that it claims to be the final word for Islam and anything written afterwards is fabrication.
Drop you PC crap!
We are at War with Islam and Muslims here in America should cooperate.
In WW1 and WW2 Italian,Japanese, and German Americans were all rightfully scrutinzed. Of course the Liberal Media you listen to only mentions the Japanese who were interned and forget to mention German and Italian Americas who were interned.
If any group of Americans should be alarmed about the growing Muslim population in America, it is rightfully Jewish Americans, because they know first hand how evil Islam can be.
Do you know anything about Islam other than what the MSM and CAIR tells you?
Who was Islam hijacked from?
All Muslims follow the Hadith and the Koran.
Maybe they will wake up when they see first hand how anti-American the growing Muslim population in America is.
You people can enjoy your Mixing Salad, but the Melting Pot is what created America and is needed if America is to survive.
"All Muslims follow the Hadith and the Koran."
I've provided a link to those who claim not to.
I suppose you use as your authority those who wish to create problems.
"It is amazing that so many Americans and even people of this forum still listen to the MSM for information about how peaceful Islam can be."
"Its teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah. The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, to hijack Islam itself. The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends; it is not our many Arab friends."
I'm afraid not. Those wild fanatical violent goals are the actual teachings of Islam. It's not an abberation like the "Christian" inquisition, it's the way Islam SUPPOSED to be. And the way its founder acted.
Sorry, but we ARE fighting a religion. Whether we like it or not, whether we can bring ourselves to admit it or not.
Here is an example I could give you a million The Young Muslims of Maryland Sheesh you still didnt answer my question.
Who was Islam hijacked from?
Where are these "moderate" Muslims?
"It's not an abberation like the "Christian" inquisition, it's the way Islam SUPPOSED to be. And the way its founder acted."
Not if you've checked the link I provided -
http://www.submission.org/had-corruption.html
"Who was Islam hijacked from?
Where are these "moderate" Muslims?"
http://www.submission.org/jihad/
I showed you that Muslims read the hadith and follow it.
>"You have fallen into the trap of thinking that we are fighting a religion, not fanatics who have hijacked a religion towards their own goals.
Luckily, President Bush knows the truth and is keeping on the correct course to destroy the true enemies."<
Actually, your way of thinking reflects that YOU have fallen into a trap. That trap is drawing such a distinct differentiation between 'fanatics' who practice Islam, and Islam itself. Bush says what he surely knows he must in his position of power, striking what I consider a highly delicate balance in an admirable manner, but I will be among the first to say: He is my President indeed, but he is an MBA, not a theologian or divinity postgrad.
Like it or not, agree with the facts or not, our quarrel has broken the surface with the "fanatics", but it IS with the Phony Religion Of Peace, Islam - and ANY who would practice it as written, as long as it is written as follows without contravention:
(From a book accepted as holy by all branches of Islam) Sahih Muslim The Book of Faith (Kitab Al-Iman) Book 001, Number 0033:
It has been on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.
[9:5] But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem
So, when they get their way, we have to pay a 'non-muslim tax' just to live in peace and safety, and we're only safe as long as they feel like allowing us to be?!
From another book considered holy script, and accepted by most Muslims:
Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4366: It has been said by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.
Just in case that appears ambiguous or rife with equivocation, here is the ultimate authority for all who would believe in Islam and practice their faith acceptably, without being considered apostate.
From the treacherous, bloodthirsty lips of allah-uzzah/satan, the most holy book of muhammadanism, the Koran/Qur'an.
Quran: [5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
[4.56] (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise."
[22:19-22] But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling fluid will be poured down their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning.
[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
Q.:[58:5] Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be crumbled to dust, as were those before them: for we have already sent down Clear Signs and the Unbelievers will have a humiliating Penalty
Terrorism, war, and bloodshed is a logical outcome of putting the Qur'an into practice.
The Qur'an promotes permanent struggle against non-Muslims - or at least until non-Muslims are converted to Islam, subjected to Islamic authority, or killed. Below is a listing of yet more relevant verses in the Qur'an.
(Q. 2:191) Quran tells Muslims to kill the disbelievers wherever they find them.
(Q.9:123),to murder them and treat them harshly
(Q.9:5), slay them
(Q.8:65 )fight with them, even if they are Christians and Jews,
(Q.9:29) humiliate them and impose on them a penalty tax.
(Q.2:193) It orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion
except Islam is left .
(Q.14:17) It says that the non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water.
(Q.5:34) It asks the Muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter.
(Q.22:9) As for the disbelievers, it says that for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods .
(Q.3:85) Quran takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and tells clearly that NO OTHER RELIGION EXCEPT ISLAM is accepted.
(Q.5:11) It relegates those who disbelieve in Quran to hell,
(Q.9:28)calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure).
(Q.9:23), (Q.3:28) Quran prohibits a Muslim to befriend a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim .
(Q.25:52) Quran asks the Muslims to strive against the unbelievers with great endeavor
(Q.66:9)be stern with them because they belong to hell.
(Q.47:4) The holy Prophet demanded his follower to strike off the heads of the disbelievers then after making a wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.
(Q.4:34) As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient.
(Q.66:10) It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands .
(Q.2:228) It maintains that men have an advantage over the women.
(Q.4:11-12) It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance,
(Q.2:282)it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the court.
(Q. 4:3) This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Muhammad allowed the Muslims to marry up to four wives and gave them license to sleep with their slave maids and as many captive women as they may have.
He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women.
Let's see, the holy books, including the Koran...the exhortations of the bigamist paedophile false prophet, muhammad...How about the behavior of some of the followers?
Pakistani soldiers raped up to 250,000 Bengali women in 1971 - after they massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religious leader decreed that Bangladeshis are "unislamic". This is why the prison guards in Islamic regime of Iran rape the women and then afterwards, call them apostates and the enemies of Allah.
SO just why in the HELL are the obviously avowed Left-Wing Feminists in N.O.W. and the A.C.L.U. so conspiratorially silent about Islam's clearly and completely proscribed abuse, devaluation, degradation, disenfranchisement, enslavement, humiliation, and objectification of women? Why have they apparently forged an alliance whereby this is all not only okay, but they actually go through extensive legal maneuvers and wrangling to protect and empower the P.R.O.P.?
Let's not forget the prevailing Muslim attitude toward-
all those dirty Jews! (/SARC.)
From an educated, enlightened, highly regarded, eminent, and well-respected Muslim leader:
"Have no mercy on the Jews, no matter where they are, in any country. Wherever you meet them, Wherever you are, Americans who are like them."
- Dr. Ahmad Abu Halabiya, member of the Palestinian Fatwa Council
This just in: Nobel Peace prize winner, respected world leader in the cause for world peace (frequent White House guest during the KLintoon administration), and "self made" billionaire, Yasser Arafat...is still ROOM TEMPERATURE and rotting nicely...
"Kill a settler every day.... Shoot at settlers everywhere.... Woe to you if you let them reach their homes safely or travel safely on the roads.... I want you to kill as many settlers as possible.... Do not pay attention to what I say to the media, the television or public appearances. Pay attention only to the written instructions that you receive from me."
- Yasser Arafat, addressing his people at a public event, July 2001 (a little after he had received the Nobel peace prize, and the large cash stipend which accompanies it. He must have forgotten himself, ehhh?!)
Another butt-nugget from the Palestinian who is turning to worm sh*t even as we discuss things:
"I am ready to kill for the sake of my cause; wouldn't I lie for it?"
- Yasser Arafat (well, at least he's honest about it...or is he..?)
It strikes me that if we are to not judge this religion as a whole, but the individual followers who show themselves to be fanatical, that there are just far too many who qualify.
The fact is, nobody of significance or prominence within Islam is calling them fanatics - they're just believers practicing their religion as it clearly directs them. It is predominantly those of us on the outside (or ex-muslims - the second best kind!) who regard them as fanatical.
With so many bad actors committing so many bad acts, and so many specific directives from each and every one of their holy books and their respected and revered leaders reinforcing upon them that they should, that they must do these things to be good and faithful Muslims, I cannot find enough compelling reasons NOT to err on the side of safety in discriminating quite thoroughly against this Phony Religion Of Peace.
Until more than half of all the world's 1.3 to 1.6 billion muhammadans disavow every last verse of 'holy script', and every last leader I have cited herein, I will remain of that opinion.
Other major world religions have had periods or outbreaks of violence in their history - times which were dark and shameful, and in need of correction. Islam's entire history provides a litany of the most brutal examples, interrupted only by defeats and containments at the hands of superior forces, or times when they lacked both the numbers and the means for it to be otherwise.
A.A.C.
Nooooooo! He can't represent American Indians, because he's not one. But....I'm 1/8 Kiowa. Will I do? LOL
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