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Africa Activists Want Catholics to Back Condoms
Reuters ^ | Fri Apr 15, 2005 | Daniel Wallis

Posted on 04/17/2005 2:46:42 PM PDT by presidio9

Rose was raised as a good Catholic schoolgirl by her grandparents, but now the 18-year-old orphan survives by selling sex in a Ugandan slum with scant regard for the teachings of the church.

Yahoo! Health Have questions about your health? Find answers here.

Whatever the next pope says about condoms, she believes they are the only way to stop an AIDS epidemic that killed more than 2 million people in sub-Saharan Africa last year.

"I'd like to follow the Church's teachings, but with condoms you can stay safe," she said. "Maybe I'm already sick, but I don't think so. You have to survive and look for money."

The Catholic Church, along with Pentecostal churches, is growing fast in sub-Saharan Africa. As one of the most influential institutions on the continent the Church's stance on the fight against HIV/AIDS affects millions.

Some 25 million people in sub-Saharan Africa are already living with HIV/AIDS.

Many AIDS campaigners say the Vatican's rejection of condoms in favor of abstinence to prevent AIDS threatens to set back the fight against the disease by years, removing a vital weapon from the armory of prevention campaigns.

"The earlier the Church changes its position, the better for the fight against AIDS in the Third World," said Nwoke Anselm of AIDS Alliance Nigeria.

The condom question also confronts Catholics with a dilemma: those who defy the church hierarchy to champion condom use in the belief it will save lives run the risk of becoming pariahs within their own parishes.

SUCCESS STORY

Rose's native Uganda is often cited as an African success story in fighting AIDS, having cut HIV infection rates to around 6 percent of the population from 30 percent in the early 1990s.

Many Ugandans attribute President Yoweri Museveni's government's success to its early frankness about condoms in contrast to the silence of many African leaders, but ministers are increasingly emphasizing abstinence and fidelity.

While abstinence may sound fine in theory, activists say poverty forces many young people in Africa into selling sex just to survive, making it impossible for them to avoid intercourse.

Uganda's top Catholic, Cardinal Emmanuel Wamala, has been an outspoken critic of condoms, which he says promote immorality, and has urged youths to vow to abstain from sex before marriage.

The government says its strategy is working in a country where conservative messages resonate with the Catholic faithful, but New-York based Human Rights Watch said last month that U.S.-funded "abstinence only" programs threatened progress.

Uganda says it has long employed an A-B-C strategy -- Abstinence, Be Faithful and use Condoms -- and denies accusations it has been induced to change its emphasis to reflect religious-right values in the United States.

"Of course we realize what condoms did in the 1990s. Now we are down to around 6 percent, we feel the only way to bring down rates further is through emphasizing abstinence and fidelity," said an official at the Ministry of Health.

DENIED COMMUNION

Catholic leaders see Africa as fertile turf for expansion due to its relatively conservative values on sex, but some activists say the church is less influential than it seems.

"People don't often listen to what they are told in church," said one AIDS campaigner in Madagascar, adding that educators should target schools, the media and parents.

Some campaigners said Catholic leaders were using the church's moral authority and enormous grass-roots presence to hinder life-saving schemes.

Umati, a family planning program in Tanzania, said 22 of its AIDS educators were barred from taking Holy Communion in one district because they were promoting condoms.

In Malawi, where AIDS kills about 10 people every hour, Mark Kambalazaza, the head of one of the capital's biggest parishes, was expelled from the Church four years ago after he criticized its stance on condoms. He started his own church, the Catholic Charismatic Renewal Ministry, which drew thousands.

"The Church has got its own beliefs. Our policy is that people cannot abstain," said Malawi Health Minister Heatherwick Ntaba. "They have to use a condom because of the HIV/AIDS pandemic that is claiming a lot of lives in our country."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: africa; africawatch; aids; cary; catholic; catholiclist; condomsaretheanswer; deathcultivation; hiv; malawi; prostitution; sex; uganda
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I am trying to finf Michael Fumento's excellent editorial from yesterday's NY Post, which makes the points that heterosexual transmission of AIDS is virtually impossible, but have thus far been unsuccessful.
1 posted on 04/17/2005 2:46:42 PM PDT by presidio9
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To: Grampa Dave; ItsOurTimeNow; little jeremiah; EdReform

PING


2 posted on 04/17/2005 2:50:22 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does)
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To: presidio9; All

I have a better way than condoms to stop the transmission of AIDS, problem is, men have got to stop porking each other in the ass.


3 posted on 04/17/2005 2:52:54 PM PDT by olde north church (I advocate violence against the Left.)
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To: presidio9

Well besides the theological issues of placing a barrier between the partners in the conjugal act, condoms provide a false sense of security since many of the cheaper ones have air holes much larger than the HIV virus. They are impermable to sperm but the virus goes right thru it.
Abstinence and monogamy - work every time they are tried.


4 posted on 04/17/2005 2:52:59 PM PDT by kjvail (Judica me Deus, et discerne causam meam de gente non sancta)
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To: presidio9
I am trying to finf Michael Fumento's excellent editorial from yesterday's NY Post, which makes the points that heterosexual transmission of AIDS is virtually impossible, but have thus far been unsuccessful.

Michael Fumento: The African AIDS myth? (Pain in the neck registration required. I suggest a trip to BugMeNot.com)

5 posted on 04/17/2005 2:53:28 PM PDT by John Jorsett (email: mistersandiego yahoo.com (put the at sign in between those two))
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To: presidio9
Re: ""I'd like to follow the Church's teachings, but with condoms you can stay safe," she said. "Maybe I'm already sick, but I don't think so. You have to survive and look for money.""

Honey lamb, being a Whore is not a teaching of the Catholic Church! I am surprised no one mentioned this to you before. Gee I really wonder if the condom issue is a desire of Catholics in Africa or liberal pseudo-Catholics in NYC and San Fran?
6 posted on 04/17/2005 2:55:56 PM PDT by Mark in the Old South (Sister Lucia of Fatima pray for us)
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To: John Jorsett

Please post this as an excertpted thread. It is an excellent article, and it appeared in yesterday's NY Post.


7 posted on 04/17/2005 3:01:10 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does)
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: presidio9
Rose was raised as a good Catholic schoolgirl by her grandparents, but now the 18-year-old orphan survives by selling sex in a Ugandan slum with scant regard for the teachings of the church.
__________________________________________________________

But, out of everything, The Church's teachings on condom use, are still a high priority for her. LOL
9 posted on 04/17/2005 3:14:24 PM PDT by Bostton1
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To: John Jorsett; Coleus; Blood of Tyrants
ping

The African heterosexual AIDS myth

10 posted on 04/17/2005 3:15:42 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does)
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To: presidio9
It is absurd for these "activists" to suggest that on the one hand, people are unwilling to go against the Church's teaching on contraception, while being perfectly willing to engage in extramarital, promiscuous sex.

There is another agenda at work here, folks. This isn't about Africa, either.

11 posted on 04/17/2005 3:20:27 PM PDT by B Knotts (Ioannes Paulus II, Requiescat in Pacem.)
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To: B Knotts
No easy choices ahead for next pontiff Huge issues for Catholics: gender, poverty, bioethics
12 posted on 04/17/2005 3:22:07 PM PDT by presidio9 ("For relaxing times, make it Santori time.")
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To: presidio9

In Africa, there is lots of hetero transmission of AIDS because they are not clean people and often have open sores on their bodies.


13 posted on 04/17/2005 3:22:55 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: SteveMcKing

Back Jesus not condoms. The message is simple. The meaning is clear.


15 posted on 04/17/2005 3:34:48 PM PDT by samadams2000
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To: olde north church
"I have a better way than condoms to stop the transmission of AIDS, problem is, men have got to stop porking each other in the ass."

If someone wants to open an African drug store or a pharmacy, then they can go in and pay $9.99 for a box of 12 like everyone else has to do. I'm sick of libs acting like condoms are a right that anyone is entitled to at taxpayer expense.

16 posted on 04/17/2005 3:37:40 PM PDT by SteveMcKing
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To: samadams2000
Are you kidding me?

Who ever whined about my comment needs to grow up. OK, I'll repeat it without the implied expletive, since someone is acting sentitive today--

CHARITY SHOULD BE SPENT ON FOOD - NOT ON SEXUAL ACTIVITY.

Am I allowed to say that?

17 posted on 04/17/2005 3:42:56 PM PDT by SteveMcKing
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To: presidio9

If they don't listen to Catholic teaching about sex outside of marriage, why do they care about what Catholics teach about condoms????


18 posted on 04/17/2005 3:44:52 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: presidio9
While abstinence may sound fine in theory, activists say poverty forces many young people in ( Africa | S.America | America's inner cities ) into selling ( sex | drugs | contraband ) just to survive, making it impossible for them to avoid ( intercourse | addiction | a life of crime ).

It seems that during earlier depression times when poverty was much more stark, you didn't hear about morals going out the window on a widespread basis just to "survive"...

19 posted on 04/17/2005 3:53:29 PM PDT by mikrofon (Anti-Pro-Condom)
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Ping to self for later pingout.


20 posted on 04/17/2005 4:04:21 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Resisting evil is our duty or we are as responsible as those promoting it.)
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To: Mark in the Old South

My question would be what are her options, or more to the point, why does she believe her options are so limited. She would not chose this life willingly, so I wonder if, as an orphan and a women, she had no way of supporting herself.


21 posted on 04/17/2005 4:05:17 PM PDT by pa mom
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To: pa mom
Re: "My question would be what are her options, or more to the point, why does she believe her options are so limited. She would not chose this life willingly, so I wonder if, as an orphan and a women, she had no way of supporting herself."

I am afraid I am not the one to answer those questions. No doubt her life is hard and a prayer for her is in order. My point is a condom is not the answer and if it is she might consider asking different questions. It is funny, you rarely hear of someone who in in that lifestyle that does not justify it a necessary to survival, even in this country. No doubt it is harder to survive there but the rationalization has always been there. Christ came across this on at least one occasion. And I would suspect the survival needs were at least as hard then as Africa is now, perhaps harder. He turned on her accusers and said "He who is without sin cast the first stone"

None took him up on it. This we all know.

But he said something else right after that. I wonder if it has any relevance to this situation?
22 posted on 04/17/2005 4:18:03 PM PDT by Mark in the Old South (Sister Lucia of Fatima pray for us)
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To: SteveMcKing

I was the one who complained. I agree with you, but your tone was unChristian.


23 posted on 04/17/2005 4:34:39 PM PDT by presidio9 ("For relaxing times, make it Santori time.")
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To: presidio9

I forgive thee.


24 posted on 04/17/2005 4:36:42 PM PDT by SteveMcKing
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To: SteveMcKing

Peace be onto you.


25 posted on 04/17/2005 4:38:12 PM PDT by presidio9 ("For relaxing times, make it Santori time.")
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To: presidio9
Africa Activists Want Catholics to Back Condoms

Too bad you never see this headline:

Catholics want Africans to stop having so much sex with strangers.

26 posted on 04/17/2005 4:39:31 PM PDT by krb (ad hominem arguments are for stupid people)
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To: kjvail
many of the cheaper ones have air holes

A penis has to breathe you know.

27 posted on 04/17/2005 4:40:47 PM PDT by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: krb
Catholics want African Men to stop having so much sex with strangers eachother and then lying about it.
28 posted on 04/17/2005 4:43:32 PM PDT by presidio9 ("For relaxing times, make it Santori time.")
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To: presidio9

Have condoms made a difference among atheists?


29 posted on 04/17/2005 4:45:18 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: presidio9

It was on Townhall.com.


30 posted on 04/17/2005 4:46:44 PM PDT by Tax-chick (The Casserole with the Beans Again blues ...)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham

They certainly have not helped the buttsex community.


31 posted on 04/17/2005 4:47:51 PM PDT by presidio9 ("For relaxing times, make it Santori time.")
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To: presidio9
While abstinence may sound fine in theory, activists say poverty forces many young people in Africa into selling sex just to survive, making it impossible for them to avoid intercourse.

The Left wants to give Rose a condom, so she can be a whore more safely. The Right wants to give Rose a job so she doesn't have to be a whore.

Now remind me: who is that wants to address the "root causes" of poverty?

32 posted on 04/17/2005 4:58:01 PM PDT by Southern Federalist
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To: presidio9

The crazy thing is...if everyone followed the teachings of the Church - AIDS would be nonexistent.
In that sense you could call the Church's teaching "progressive"
The closer we get to it the less AIDS will be a problem


33 posted on 04/17/2005 5:26:01 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: Mark in the Old South

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think I read that Africa has vast undeveloped resources. Why aren't the African nations developing their resources? They should be the richest continent on the earth. What seems to be the problem?


34 posted on 04/17/2005 5:42:29 PM PDT by abclily
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To: presidio9
They certainly have not helped the buttsex community.

Bluntly stated, and accurate. Which leads me to conclude that those who condemn the Catholic church for not promoting condoms have a different agenda than simply trying to stop the spread of AIDS. The fact is, these are people who hate religion and aren't averse to using any tactic to impugn it.

35 posted on 04/17/2005 6:06:25 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: presidio9; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; ...
HIV/AIDS is down in Uganda, no secrets, abstinence and monogamy and NO condoms. And I bet the UN with their sustainable development and population control programs  is behind this whole thing.

Uganda AIDSUganda Abstinence

36 posted on 04/17/2005 6:15:15 PM PDT by Coleus (God Bless our beloved Pope John Paul II, Rest in Peace)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham

Agreed, although it depends on how you define "religion."

The "activists" in the US, largely funded by Rockefeller, Ford, and J&J Foundations, have a religion--it's called Sexicity.

Sex, any time, any place, with anyone, as often as possible.

They just don't SAY that because it's so...uhhh, Hefnerian!


37 posted on 04/17/2005 6:23:30 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: abclily

Pseudo-marxist governments, military dictatorships that change weekly, Islam.. the list is long and distinguished.

The hope is the Faith is spreading like wildfire there, give it another 100 years it may the best place on Earth to live.


38 posted on 04/17/2005 6:29:04 PM PDT by kjvail (Judica me Deus, et discerne causam meam de gente non sancta)
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To: Coleus

Coleus,Bump.


39 posted on 04/17/2005 6:41:42 PM PDT by fatima
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To: presidio9
Way to go Reuters for trying to set the Vatican straight on a moral issue. After all, when I face a moral dilemma, I go straight to Reuters to find out what to do.

/sarcasm
40 posted on 04/17/2005 8:45:41 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: presidio9

Condoms is, after all, primarily a birth control devise. Since AIDS has increasingly spread among black populations in the Unbited States, where condoms are readily accessible, then does it not stand to reason that the main problem is the manner and frequency of sexual intercourse?


41 posted on 04/17/2005 9:35:20 PM PDT by RobbyS (JMJ)
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To: thompsonsjkc; odoso; animoveritas; St. Johann Tetzel; DaveTesla; mercygrace; ...

Moral Absolutes Ping.

I've read of organizations which help women (and children) escape from prostitution. They get education, medical help, a place to live, and the children are taken care of, often in orphanages. I've read about them in Thailand, and I'm sure there are other places as well.

Instead of condoms, these poor souls need to escape from the gutter. Whether it's their "fault" or not, they need help to escape and live a peaceful life. Religious organizations would be ideal to help in this way.

People just want the Catholic Church to be destroyed, that's all. The unchangeable moral absolutes it stands for make people uncomfortable.

Let me know if you want on/off this pinglist.


42 posted on 04/17/2005 11:03:41 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Resisting evil is our duty or we are as responsible as those promoting it.)
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To: presidio9

Catholics want Africa Activists to Back Off


43 posted on 04/18/2005 1:14:45 AM PDT by LibertarianInExile (The South will rise again? Hell, we ever get states' rights firmly back in place, the CSA has risen!)
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To: presidio9
Rose was raised as a good Catholic schoolgirl by her grandparents, but now the 18-year-old orphan survives by selling sex in a Ugandan slum with scant regard for the teachings of the church.

"I'd like to follow the Church's teachings, but with condoms you can stay safe," she said.

Hang the fact that fornication is not exactly on the 'DO' list....

44 posted on 04/18/2005 1:22:55 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (Grant no power to government you would not want your worst enemies to wield against you.)
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To: presidio9
  1. Africa Activists Want Catholics to Back Condoms
  2. Some activists say the church is less influential than it seems. ..People don't often listen to what they are told in church

Basic contradiction alert!!

Is the Church influential, or not influential?

45 posted on 04/18/2005 3:48:15 AM PDT by syriacus (Weird George Felos repeatedly flicked his tongue out his gaping mouth when lying to the press 3/31)
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To: A CA Guy

You are right the problem in Africa is the large number of heterosexual transmition of aids. In fact 25% of the South African army is hiv positive.


46 posted on 04/18/2005 3:53:45 AM PDT by TXBSAFH (Never underestimate the power of human stupidity--Robert Heinlein)
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To: 2nd amendment mama; A2J; Agitate; Alouette; Annie03; aposiopetic; attagirl; axel f; Balto_Boy; ...

ProLife Ping!

If anyone wants on or off my ProLife Ping List, please notify me here or by freepmail.

47 posted on 04/18/2005 6:04:17 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Currahee!)
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To: kjvail
Well besides the theological issues of placing a barrier between the partners in the conjugal act, condoms provide a false sense of security since many of the cheaper ones have air holes much larger than the HIV virus. They are impermable to sperm but the virus goes right thru it.

I'm afraid I can't remember where I heard this illustration, but it's a good one. If the holes in a condom were the size of a house window, sperm cells would be the size of a house. So no problem, right? Well, just one: The HIV virus would be the size of a baseball.

Oops.

48 posted on 04/18/2005 6:07:18 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Currahee!)
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To: 2nd amendment mama; A2J; Agitate; Alouette; Annie03; aposiopetic; attagirl; axel f; Balto_Boy; ...


Additional note: Don't miss the links in post 36.


49 posted on 04/18/2005 6:08:29 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Currahee!)
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To: presidio9
The condom question also confronts Catholics with a dilemma: those who defy the church hierarchy to champion condom use in the belief it will save lives run the risk of becoming pariahs within their own parishes.

Let's take this out of the realm of sex and death, and look at it for a moment.

Let's say that I looked around and saw that after 40 years of the Great Society silliness, I see that the poor are still poor despite our best efforts. So I start telling people it's OK to steal if you're very poor. Just pick somebody rich and rob them blind.

I'll bet I'd quickly become a pariah in my church, and no number of Leftist activists crying out against the mean, nasty tenets of Christianity would change that.

Plus, trying to prevent AIDS with condoms is like having seatbelts made of spaghetti.

50 posted on 04/18/2005 6:20:35 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Currahee!)
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