Posted on 04/15/2005 7:11:19 PM PDT by CHARLITE
Thank you. But we live in a fallen world and have to do something besides prayer. Perhaps we should pray that God grant us wisdom to find better solutions.
How about you offering some solutions instead of insulting anyone that tries to? eh?
I do disagree with you about everyone "knowing" about the problem. Maybe you live in an enlightened area, but it wasn't until I found FR this past summer that I met anyone that had a clue about Islam. I "thought" I knew a lot because I had read a few books.LOL I have since learned that I knew nothing and it was a few wonderful FReepers who took the time to teach me (thank you USF and Texasblubell)...and yes I am still learning, and sometimes I get carried away with my choice of words.
I sense your frustration at lack of solutions. Mine would take away some of our civil liberties, which I'm sure would not go over well with many in this Country.
I am a Bush supporter, but I don't agree with how he has handled this situation. I also don't necessarily think he "believes" what he said publicly.
Do you have any ideas?
It's a lot easier to recognize the problems, than it is to find the solutions to solve them!
I am not opposed to more controls, but we don't live alone in this world. The world would have to cooperate and so far we have done nothing but piss the world off. UK, France, Italy, Germany and other European countries have large numbers of Muslims (in part brough there by our pressure to create a "multiethinic" society like ours -- a philosophy that has its roots elsewhere, but that's another subject), so they won't go along with that. And with all the Muslims in the world surrounding us in our Fortress, what will that do? We can't "go it alone." That's the kind of thining that got us into this mess to begin with.
Also, you can't outlaw a religion! Christianity was outlawed and persecuted for 300 years and all it did was grow and grow until it finally took over.
You need to read how this thread started before jumping to conclusions.
I have read it, and I don't think the people you are complaining about are wrong either.
I look at this as a 'them or us' scenario, cause that's really how it's going to end up. One side will be obliterated. I prefer our side to not lose.
I can also appreciate your impression that not everyone is fully aware of the magnitude of this threat and the frighteningly few reasonable options we have.
There are people a lot smarter than you and I who are wrecking their brains day and night trying to find a solution. It's a tightrope with very little room for error.
Bottom line is -- we can control and isolate any dangerous element within our society, but not if that is only the tip of an iceberg. Shutting down mosques and placing all Muslims under surveillance will do nothing to stop radical Islam in the world -- it will only make it more radical.
We need to build alliances, strengthen our values, pray, and look at root problems of this radicalization. If you think people know nothing of Islam, they know even less as to the complex mess that started all this.
But keep learning. We all are. Just realize that the world is not as simple as we would like it to be.
It wasn't a transcription error. The section of the Koran in question is very obscure in Arabic, and makes much better sense if read as East Syriac. It apparently is an East Syriac Christian text that got stuck in when the Koran was being 'dictated by the Archangel Gabriel'.
In East Syriac 'hur' is white raisin. It isn't anything in Arabic, and got interpreted by the Muslims (maybe even Mohammed himself) as the magically renewing 'chastely amorous' 'virgins'.
(Incidentally, my Metropolitan is an native speaker of Arabic, and says the Koran is lousy Arabic, not poetic, awkward, hardly the qualities you'd expect from an angelically dictated divinely authored work.)
Even though I may not agree with you on every point, I really appreciate your post and your way of presenting your case.
we can look back in time to when Christians were killing each other in Europe over relatively small differences in theology,
One BIG difference here Elkclan is they may "say" it is being done in the name of Christ, but that is NOT Christianity. Christ teaches to "love your enemies and pray for those that persecute you." No where does Jesus teach for us to hate or kill! Can the same be said of Mohammed? I think not!
I've certainly felt pressure to keep my mouth shut over evolution, abortion and the fact that I don't believe in God. There was constant and overwhelming societal pressure to go to church - though fair enough I wasn't dragged there (except by my mother)
How long ago was this? Sounds like the good 'ol days to me (sorry, I know it must not have been to you) God Bless your mother...maybe that is why, even though you aren't a believer, you are reasonable and not filled with hatred toward Christians. A lot does have to do with where you live. I was raised in Miami and no one I knew went to church, and in the liberal leaning community where I live now, very few go to church.
I wonder when you last visited this Country? Christians are the ONE group that are fair game to bash and insult. In public schools you can't even mention the name Jesus, or Merry Christmas, yet Islam is taught as "History" and students not only learn the 5 pillars, they take on Muslim names and wardrobe etc for school projects. I have a real problem with this double standard. Teach ALL the religions as History, or none of them.
As for evolution....it should be taught as a theory Not a fact! Why not teach both sides? See, I'm a right-wing conservative Christian but I'm reasonable (I prefer that word to tolerant).
I wouldn't want to stop anyone from practicing Islam -I believe people should be free to practice their religion
Pre 9/11 I would have agreed with you. I had no idea what the agenda of Islam was. Now that I know its agenda, I feel it is a threat to the Freedom we have in this country. As I said to kosta50, I don't have any legitimate,legal solutions.
Your solution:
I think we fight fundamentalism and bad religion by being clear, rational, secular and tolerant and we fight the violent promotion of bad religion with effective, well-funded and well thought-out and fair law enforcement.
This sounds good (some of it)...however...having been in law enforcement for 10 years, don't ever count on it being "well-funded, thought out or fair"! Yes, I am cynical. The Criminal Justice System in this Country is a travesty.
if to counter their ways, we restrict our own liberties, THEY have won.
I have had this discussion with someone else here on FR and I somewhat see your point. Personally, I am willing to give up some of my personal liberties for the protection of society, but I know this is a red flag and can get very complicated.
Great ideas...although I don't know that I will ever trust France or want to be aligned with them! But that's a different topic to save for another thread!
I like your idea on another post about praying for wisdom.
But keep learning. We all are. Just realize that the world is not as simple as we would like it to be.
Yes, I learned that on 9/11
Thank you.
Thanks so much for the illuminating comment. The above information is great to know. And, about the confusion between "raisins" and "virgins," all that I know is that it has been explained that way by several scholars. I wouldn't have any way of knowing the accuracy of the claim (that it originally meant "raisins"), but your explanation about the East Syriac vs. Arabic version makes excellent sense to me......but I just LOVE the comments of your metropolitan about how atrocious the Arabic really is!
Thanks so much for your contribution to the ongoing "conversation" concerning what I personally consider to be a very wicked cult.
Char
These folks apparently don't practice what their big chief Mohammed preaches.
Praise God for that!
There are always opportunities to learn more!
Why does islam hate Christianity? Let's try to explain why that might be, by analogy. Remember, islam hates Jews first and foremost; every other religion or belief system qualifies for hatred by islam on a kind of sliding scale. Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, animist, pagan, what have you; all kuffar, all unclean, all infidel, all deserving of nothing but to be burned in hell, beheaded, arms and legs 'smited' - islam has allah's word on it.
Put your Colombo coat and hat on. The 'prophet' just might be a composite of every parasitic arab male who ever lived a nomad survival existence, who robbed, raped, pillaged and slaughtered for a 'living'- who stole not only people and turned them into slaves, but KNOWLEDGE!
The knowledge that is in the koran is obviously plagiarised from numerous sources, much incorrectly transcribed because it was orally transmitted. From Hebrew lore, from the ancients, including Babylonian astrology/astronomy, planetary worship, Hindu mathematics, and ancient arab stone-worship - the arab tribes carried aerolites in the desert as good-luck charms...and the black stone in Mecca is still their most guarded relic of the worship of meteors, which seems to me to be the true arabic religion.
If you had made your fortune, built your future upon the backs of others as the arabs did, with mohammad as the 'prophet' would you not then discredit all that from which you stole? How else are you going to maintain the lie that all this is your own? Islam's hatred of the 'people of the book' and all other belief systems is nothing more or less than an attempt to destroy all the witnesses to a crime committed by a man they chose to name mohammad; a most successful arab thief.
Why does islam hate Christianity? Let's try to explain why that might be, by analogy. Remember, islam hates Jews first and foremost; every other religion or belief system qualifies for hatred by islam on a kind of sliding scale. Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, animist, pagan, what have you; all kuffar, all unclean, all infidel, all deserving of nothing but to be burned in hell, beheaded, arms and legs 'smited' - islam has allah's word on it.
Put your Colombo coat and hat on. The 'prophet' just might be a composite of every parasitic arab male who ever lived a nomad survival existence, who robbed, raped, pillaged and slaughtered for a 'living'- who stole not only people and turned them into slaves, but KNOWLEDGE!
The knowledge that is in the koran is obviously plagiarised from numerous sources, much incorrectly transcribed because it was orally transmitted. From Hebrew lore, from the ancients, including Babylonian astrology/astronomy, planetary worship, Hindu mathematics, and ancient arab stone-worship - the arab tribes carried aerolites in the desert as good-luck charms...and the black stone in Mecca is still their most guarded relic of the worship of meteors, which seems to me to be the true arabic religion.
If you had made your fortune, built your future upon the backs of others as the arabs did, with mohammad as the 'prophet' would you not then discredit all that from which you stole? How else are you going to maintain the lie that all this is your own? Islam's hatred of the 'people of the book' and all other belief systems is nothing more or less than an attempt to destroy all the witnesses to a crime committed by a man they chose to name mohammad; a most successful arab thief.
whoops! sorry about the double post..
Hey Fred, that info was so good, it doesn't hurt to read it twice!
Islam is a crime.
Muslims are required to remove all the witnesses.
>> You need to deflate that ego of yours a little, my friend, and stop taking things so personally. <<
Islam threatens Christians. Are you aware that a Coptic Christian family was threatened on the PalTak website? A couple of weeks later they ended up dead. The LEOs blamed some drug addicts and swept the whole thing under the rug.
Muslims have threatened Christians in the US saying they will behave the same here as they behave in the ME which is killing Christians with impunity. These threats are real. I do take these threats seriously and personally and will continue to do so.
>> Jan of Colorado suggested we "expose and destroy" Islam. Is that a responsible "solution"? <<
Muslims openly state they want to destroy Christianity and convert everyone to islam, by force if necessary. They are openly hostile. I am openly defensive. They have stated that they will kill us or die trying. I prefer they die trying if it comes down to it. Anger is not a sin, nor is self defense.
>> The reality is that there is one billion of them in this world and growing. <<
I don’t care how many of them there are. When they come here and threaten Americans I tend to get angry. They are not here to become Americans. They are here to convert America to islam and sharia law. Several FReepers have already received death threats for denouncing islam. The danger is real and it is now. If you don’t see the danger it’s because you choose to look the other way.
>> We have no control over it; genocide is not an option. <<
We do have control over it in the US if the suggestions I have put forth are followed. They are not extremely radical and will protect this country.
>> And this kind of "criticism" irritates you? <<
You have still not offered any suggestions and continue to discard other’s solutions.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.