Posted on 04/15/2005 7:11:19 PM PDT by CHARLITE
Lie. When people are born into the religion of the moon good and his unholy scam-artist muhammed (may he burn forever in hell between two pigs), they are killed if they attempt to leave it. Islam is the only religion on Earth that has laws to kill those who repudiate it.
(2) Judaism is practiced by less than 25 million people on earth. It is really a very small religion numbers-wise. American Jewish community is 2 or 3 % of the total population -- maybe 5 million. In Israel's 6.8 million people, about 5.2 million (77%) are Jewish by religion. All in all, in a world of almost 2 billion Christians and over 1 billion Muslims, Judaism is prominent only because it is at the root of both of these religions.
So what? It is the root of the religion of the moon god in that it began in that region.
(3) Jews used terrorist tactics against the British, killing both the military and civilians in the process. So, it's not that they are "above" that; it simply means they have no need for it.
Lie.
(4) Islam is a threat because of its numbers. Let's not forget that we as a country supported Bosnian and Kosovo Muslims and have made it possible for the extreme Islamic operatives to gain a foothold in that part of Europe. Apparently, our attitude towards Islamic threat is mixed: we maintain cordial relationships with all sorts of undemocratic Islamic regimes, one of which -- Saudi Arabia -- is a cesspool of Islamic radicalism
Specious restatement of facts. Islam is a threat because it is an evil ideology hiding as a theology. That pedophile (MYBIHFBTP) understood that if you could sell people on the idea that any acts done in the name of "God" are OK would be more potent than just "For King And Country." Satan has been laughing for over a thousand years on his religion and the evil it has (and will) wrought. Our relationship with Saud and other ME countries are a result of Realpolitik -- it doesn't mean we ever will accept the evil religion as anything other than what it is.
Your concerns are understood. They are my concerns too. But logic tells me that containing Islam in America leaves over 90% of Islam in the world unchecked.
Frankly as Americans and Christians is not our problem to solve problems with Islam. Islam has created its own situation by not modernizing and becoming a positive force in the world. Furthermore by attacking the US in a nasty and destructive way, they have brought attention to themselves, and like a child we will try to help you fix your problems.
But the bottom line is you need to do this yourselves. Islamic countries and cultures need to grow up and join the world. Misogyny, democratic principles, God given rights, education, modernization, these all need to be addressed internally, because Islam especially teaches that outside influence is not to be trusted.
So what's it going to be? Fix it yourselves, we'll spend treasure and lives to help, we have shown that, but not forever. Because if you don't fix it, next time we just might not be so nice.
As far as France is concerned, do not forget that the French very very instrumental in assuring the success of the American Revolution. Without the French, we may still be British and swear loyalty to the queen. Scary, isn't it?
Today we have good relations with our former enemies, Germany and Japan and their allies. We are even somewhat friendly with Russia. In politics, interests prevail over friendship. Let's not discard potentially useful allies. Countries do not reject alliances because they don "like" us, but because it is not in their interest at this moment to support us. If most of the world (at least the developed world) is out of synch with our interests, perhaps we need to synchronize them, and realize that we don't live alone. We all know that it's better to have good neighborly relations than to have bad ones. Countries are no different.
Yes you do. Straightfaced too.
Ad Hominem response. Good argument, Liar. The evil quran authored by your little pedophile prophet lets you lie as long as it advances your cause.
I'll keep an eye on you.
The problem is not just theirs but ours because there are one billion of them. No matter how you turn it around, Islam teaches subjugation of all to Allah or death. The root cause is the religion itself. The only way to defeat Islam is to show Muslims that their religion is at fault. That will take more than guns. Remember, they have been brainwashed from the fist day. To them Islam is normal and we are not. It takes a complete reversal of everything you know and believe -- and that is very difficult.
My pedophile prophet? I am Christian and my ancestors bled for centuries because of Islam and still do -- with America's help. It's sad but true.
And fellow FReepers as well, right? ;o)
Yes, of course.
All we have to do is let nature take its own course where we can, inundate them with "sins" of Christianity and temptations of western civilization, not to speak of freedom to speak and worship.
What's blatantly obvious is that all the extreme Islamic countries are extremely backward and inimical to modernism. One reason why Turkey is not (as) backward as other countries predominantly Muslim in population is because it is a secular Muslim state.
So, while we may not convince them that Islam is wrong, we can show them something that is closer to them in their hearts. And, in time, and some gentle arm twisting, the seed of doubt and the virus of being able to do what one really likes will do the rest.
kosta50 said: "Also, you can't outlaw a religion! Christianity was outlawed and persecuted for 300 years and all it did was grow and grow until it finally took over."
And I agree completely. Oppression (real or imagined) has only helped Christianity to grow and spread. Islam is really much the same in that respect. If you oppress, cruelly, harshly and unfairly it will only spread. Unfortunately "perceived" oppression - made up sometimes by Muslims or just misunderstood has the same effect. That's why we in the West have to stick to our values of civil liberty, democracy, tolerance (including freedom to worship) and openness. If people behave badly, come down on 'em like a ton of bricks - but do it openly and fairly.
There's a lot of talk about Islamaphobia in the UK - that's the "irrational fear or hatred of Muslims". At first I thought the "Muslim community" were completely making it up - but reading some of the posts in this forum I see there is a lot irrational fear and misunderstanding about Islam (and I have already posted that I don't care for Islam one jot).
Irrational fear isn't constructive. But understanding and discourse is. There are a lot of bad Muslims out there and that they are dangerous (this seems well understood), but folks also have to understand that there are in fact a lot of decent Muslims out there who could take a lead in their religion and culture being more tolerant - and dare I say it - more Westernised.
And please believe me, I do understand what some Mullahs are preaching. I've worked with a guy who was a full-on Nut-case Islamic fundamentalist who I have no doubt would have happily killed me if he thought it would promote the spread of Islam (and who, by the way, was actually very pleasant to work with, I learned a lot from him) But squashing this guy, when he hadn't actually done anything and hadn't said anything either (my earlier description of him is just MY perception) would have only enraged his Muslim brothers - and rightly so.
Kind and decent Muslims are either apostates or liars. In fact, Islam teaches Muslims to lie to the infidels if need be. Deception is not a moral obstacle to them.
Our societies are incompatible. But the problem is that we are willing to accept even that which is incompatible with our values and society for the sake of worshiping some "fairness." Left to their own devices the Muslim world will lock itself into a 7th century Bedouin prison and stay there. As such it will not be too attractive to many a hater who has joined Islam, nor too radicalized, because being a devout Muslim is an all-day job. They will exist unto themselves.
The problem is that we are interacting with them. That introduces all sorts of temptations and "immoral" ideas -- such as women drivers! They know that women look better dressed as western women than as beekeepers.
They know that most people like music and movies. They know that living in a 7th century on a 21st century earth is hell and that Muslims would gladly give up their moon god if they could -- so the Muslim establishment bites back. They are frightened that they will lose their 7th century appeal in favor a 21st century "decadence."
It is easier to separate than to fight. Ignore them. Don't mix with them, even ostracize them. But don't give them the reason to fight. They will turn on each other. Muslims can't stand each other. Look at Shiia and Sunni rivalry, and look how divided the Muslim world is.
When they fight they think they are doing God's work (heaven forbid!), they think they are martyrs. If you lived the life they live becoming a martyr might be even appealing. Why give them the pleasure? If they don't have an external enemy, they will find an internal one -- and slaughter each other.
All we have to do is pump them up with our music, fashion, TV, movies, attractively dressed women and so on. They are curious and tempted. It's human, it's natural. That will not make them fight, that will make them close their doors and run!
We need to leave them to their own devices and let them fight it our amongst themselves. But the less we interact the better it will be for all of us. Islam and our cultures are not compatible.
In short, Islam has pope-envy.
LOL! Going to get my popcorn.
Reporting for duty!
This all sounds great, but if the "moderates" do not take control and the "radicals" keep killing children in Israel, flying airplanes into buildings and blowing up discos in SE Asia, the world will grow a bit weary of coddling them.
Just keep in mind: Al Queda (sp) did 911, the US invaded 2 countries, killed thousands of the enemy, destroyed their radical infrastructure, chased their "leader" Osammi into hiding in a cave and reset their entire governments. Americans are generally a peaceful lot, but when our comfortable life style is threatened we have a history of getting a bit nasty, just ask the Japanese.
Good Morning!
Well, Israel needs to deal with its own problems. Our foreign policy should not be decided by Israel or because of Israel. We should do what is in our national interest -- deal with the fallen world as we see best for America, resist if attacked, build our culture and not try to mix everything and anything for the sake of fairness. We were attacked by Osama's fundamentalists not by Iraq's dictator. Why we are in Iraq is still a mystery to me, IMHO.
Its really not that difficult and right now it is working.
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