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1 posted on 04/15/2005 4:56:59 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Much thanks- It is a good read-and a viewpoint I can agree with.


2 posted on 04/15/2005 5:00:12 PM PDT by StonyBurk
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To: Tailgunner Joe

The writer of this article is aptly named. Response forthcoming from one Atheist Footmouth.


3 posted on 04/15/2005 5:03:19 PM PDT by Borges
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To: Tailgunner Joe
"If a liberal sneezed and you said “God bless you” he would begin spastically whining about the “separation of church and state.”

No, he would begin spastically spitting out the teeth I loosened. Waiting, waiting, waiting.........*tapping foot*


4 posted on 04/15/2005 5:08:22 PM PDT by Viking2002 (Let's get the Insurrection started, already..............)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Pol Pot was an atheist.

Marx was an atheist.

Lenin was an atheist.

Stalin was an atheist.

Mao was an atheist.

Atheism is a good thing. Right?


5 posted on 04/15/2005 5:14:39 PM PDT by PeterFinn (The Holocaust was perfectly legal.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
To the contrary, however, the left’s beloved “separation of church and state” mantra originated not in the Constitution, but in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 (11 years after the First Amendment was incorporated into the Constitution) regarding their concerns that the Congregationalists may abuse their power to attain a favored position. Explicitly, Jefferson wrote: “[the] wall of separation between church and state…is a one-directional wall. It keeps the government from running the church, but makes sure that Christian principles will always stay in government.”

I am no supporter of the separation of Church and state, but this quote seems fabricated. Here is the information about the actual letter. Bizarre that Jefferson should be relied on for interpretation, though. Justice Rehnquist debunked this nonsense in Wallace v. Jaffree:

It is impossible to build sound constitutional doctrine upon a mistaken understanding of constitutional history, but unfortunately the Establishment Clause has been expressly freighted with Jefferson's misleading metaphor for nearly 40 years. Thomas Jefferson was of course in France at the time the constitutional Amendments known as the Bill of Rights were passed by Congress and ratified by the States. His letter to the Danbury Baptist Association was a short note of courtesy, written 14 years after the Amendments were passed by Congress. He would seem to any detached observer as a less than ideal source of contemporary history as to the meaning of the Religion Clauses of the First Amendment.

6 posted on 04/15/2005 5:37:03 PM PDT by gbcdoj (In the world you shall have distress. But have confidence. I have overcome the world. ~ John 16:33)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
By including the establishment clause in the Constitution, the framers were preventing the prospects of theocracy such as that which the Pilgrims purportedly fled from in England before settling on the North American shores.

First off, England was a monarchy, not a theocracy.

Second, the Pilgrims did not flee from England to America, but instead they left from Holland to America. They could practice their religion any way they wanted to in Holland, but they were concerned about their children becoming too Dutch, losing their English culture.

Finally, I'm sure the founders were more concerned about the Federal government intruding upon the states in the area of religion, as some states had official state churches at the time of our nations' founding, than any kind of concern about the new country becoming a theocracy.

The colonies had more than their share of "religious intolerance" during the colonial period. Some colonies were founded, because the faiths of their people were outlawed in other colonies.

7 posted on 04/15/2005 6:02:14 PM PDT by GoLightly
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Ping to self for later pingout.


18 posted on 04/15/2005 6:35:02 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Resisting evil is our duty or we are as responsible as those promoting it.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Explicitly, Jefferson wrote: "[the] wall of separation between church and state...is a one-directional wall. It keeps the government from running the church, but makes sure that Christian principles will always stay in government."

The context sort of changes a potload (that's a technical term) of judicial holdings. That is, it renders them WRONG. In error.

Shuffling off to find independent corroboration ...

22 posted on 04/15/2005 6:49:02 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Bump!


28 posted on 04/15/2005 7:05:37 PM PDT by The Mayor ( Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, and whose hope is the Lord)
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To: Tailgunner Joe


37 posted on 04/15/2005 7:26:07 PM PDT by satchmodog9 (Murder and weather are our only news)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion...Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
- John Adams, October 11, 1798


60 posted on 04/15/2005 9:51:16 PM PDT by Vision (When Hillary Says She's Going To Put The Military On Our Borders...She Becomes Our Next President)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
To the contrary, however, the left’s beloved “separation of church and state” mantra originated not in the Constitution, but in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 (11 years after the First Amendment was incorporated into the Constitution) regarding their concerns that the Congregationalists may abuse their power to attain a favored position. Explicitly, Jefferson wrote: “[the] wall of separation between church and state…is a one-directional wall. It keeps the government from running the church, but makes sure that Christian principles will always stay in government.”

Wow! That's the first time I ever saw THAT part of Jefferson's letter. I wonder if the athiest Democrat scumbags of the ACLU would be kind enough to post that on their website?

82 posted on 04/15/2005 11:36:16 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Tailgunner Joe
" a pathetic, subversive gang of rogue lawyers who have nothing better to do with their time than to bully public officials out of acknowleging their creator and throwing childish temper tantrums over harmless little plaques."

That's the best description of the ACLU I've seen yet- LOL.

God Bless Roy Moore. The stand he made called attention to the very serious problem we have with our Judiciary branch. Sorry it had to cost him so much. His judicial career was one of the first casualties of the war against PC and Judicial Tyranny. But it was instrumental in getting the attention of Americans. I know many, many people were surprised/shocked that he lost his job over a simple plaque of the Ten Commandments.

I'm looking forward to reading his book.

I wish all the Republicans could have the same intestinal fortitude he has and Tom Delay has.

After witnessing the State sponsored execution of an innocent, disabled person (Terri Schindler-the first casualty of the war against Judicial Tyranny) based on hearsay evidence at best- How can anyone NOT see the magnitude of the problem here? There simply is no more important issue than this.

I wish all Republicans who don't have the will to fight, would resign right now, and let the people elect those who have what it takes to overcome this massive obstacle and threat to our freedom.

I imagine Roy Moore and others will be a big help in solving our Judicial Tyranny problem, since they have experienced it first hand.

97 posted on 04/16/2005 1:08:40 AM PDT by Pajamajan ("Where there's life there's hope"- Terri Schindler's message to the world. Never Forget.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Bump for later, when I have time to show how disconnected from U.S. history and hypocritical the Moore bashers are.


106 posted on 04/16/2005 1:37:07 AM PDT by Old Landmarks (No fear of man.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

ACLU can KMA!


161 posted on 04/16/2005 3:40:43 PM PDT by sauropod (Life under Dictatorship is far more safer, than behind the bars of your democracy. - Iraq Mujahadeen)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Good reminder that this is NOT in the Constitution.

Bump.

166 posted on 04/16/2005 4:36:18 PM PDT by DoctorMichael (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
"The functionality of our democracy..."

Article 4, section 4 of the Constitution for the United States;

"The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government..."

NOWHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION DOES IT STATE ANYTHING ABOUT A DEMOCRACY!!!

295 posted on 04/18/2005 6:46:43 PM PDT by Mikey (Freedom isn't free, but slavery is.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
"The functionality of our democracy..."

Article 4, section 4 of the Constitution for the United States;

"The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government..."

NOWHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION DOES IT STATE ANYTHING ABOUT A DEMOCRACY!!!

THE SOLDIER'S TRAINING MANUAL

Issued by the War Department, November 30, 1928, set forth the exact and truthful definitions of a democracy and of a republic - this manual was ordered destroyed by the infamous F. D. Roosevelt, so that he could institute a democracy utilizing social security as a means to make everyone a slave to the Federal Government.

TM2000-25: 118-120
DEMOCRACY:

* A government of masses.
* Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of direct expression
* Results in mobocracy.
* Attitude toward property is communistic-negating property rights.
* Attitude toward law is that he will of the majority shall regulate, whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences.
* Results in demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.

TM2000-25: 120-121
REPUBLIC:

* Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them.
* Attitude toward property is respect for laws and individual rights, and a sensible economic procedure.
* Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences.
* A greater number of Citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass.
* Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy.
* Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress.
* Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world

A republic is a form of government under a constitution which provides for the election of;

(1) an executive and
(2) a legislative body, who working together in a representative capacity, have all the power of appointment, all power of legislation, all power to raise revenue and appropriate expenditures, and are required to create
(3) a judiciary to pass upon justice and legality of their governmental acts and to recognize
(4) certain inherent individual rights.

"Take away any one of these four elements and you are drifting into autocracy. Add one or more to those four elements and you are drifting into democracy."

-- Atwood.

Democracy is the "direct" rule of the people and has been repeatedly tried without success.

Our Constitutional fathers, familiar with the strength and weakness of both autocracy and democracy, with fixed principles definitely in mind, defined a representative republican for of government. They "made a very marked distinction between a republic and a democracy and said repeatedly and empathically that they had founded a republic.

See article 4, sec 4, clause 1 of the Constitution for the United States.

Democracy

Definition: political system based on collective rights, where power is vested and wielded according to majority vote (rule by the many).
Democracy is the political expression of Collectivism, aka 'collective rights', in which man's rights are determined by the size of his constituency.
Democracy is characterized by pressure-group warfare, with competing groups battling for the rights to destroy (e.g., tax, ban, enslave, deport, etc.) each other. Since democracy determines right and wrong by majority vote, a thug need only garner a big enough group of supporters in order legalize his crimes.
A democracy is not a republic.
Republics establish government to protect rights as absolutes; democracies, on the other hand, establish government to redistribute rights as booty, according to the recipients' or victims' gang size.
A democracy commits suicide as soon as the weakest 51% of its population discovers that it can vote to enslave the strongest 49%. America's progressive tax rates are a good example of this.

Republic

Definition: political system based on individual rights, which the government is chartered to protect.

A republic is a political system founded on the principle of individual rights, with government established strictly to protect those rights. Government in a republic is limited to its specific, limited duties as chartered via its constitution; typically, these powers are those of police, courts, military, and international treaty-making. As a result, the defining feature of republics is government-protected liberty.

A republic is not a democracy, even though some of its activities are handled democratically. A democracy is different than a republic in one enormous respect: a democracy is founded on the contradiction of 'collective rights'. For further discussion, see the entry for 'democracy'.

Republics commit suicide by losing sight of their founding principle -- individual rights -- and then, when confronted with difficult questions that require principles to answer, resorting to the seemingly attractive idea of collective rights ("the common good") instead.

This first occurred in America during the Civil War, and thereafter recurred with increasing frequency.

Today America is a democracy teetering on the edge of socialism.

That's the difference: individual rights versus 'collective rights'. The former is a redundancy, the latter a contradiction: one cannot acquire more rights than others merely by joining a group.

A republic acknowledges that each man owns his own life, and therefore has the right to be selfish.

A democracy does not recognize this right; it asserts that man's life (property, resources, etc.) belongs to the state , (and if you don’t believe it, try adding an extension on ‘your’ home without a permit from the city or town or State, etc!) and is to be apportioned by majority vote for "the common good". The next time someone tells you it's wrong to be selfish, and that selflessness and Altruism and The Public Good are noble, you'll know which side he's on.

Democracy vs Republic

A Democracy:

Three wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.

A Republic:

The flock gets to vote for which wolves vote on dinner.

A Constitutional Republic:

Voting on dinner is expressly forbidden, and the sheep are armed.

Federal Government:

The means by which the sheep will be fooled into voting for a Democracy.

Democrats and Republicans:

sheep who think they are wolves.

The ultimate democracy is a lynch mob.

297 posted on 04/18/2005 7:07:15 PM PDT by Mikey (Freedom isn't free, but slavery is.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe; Arthur Wildfire! March; jwalsh07; MeekOneGOP; Grampa Dave; BOBTHENAILER; devolve; ..

385 posted on 04/19/2005 10:47:05 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: Tailgunner Joe; All

It was on June 9, 1993 that ACLU member Joel Sogol wrote to then-chief justice of Alabama Sonny Hornsby, threatening to sue anyone who continued the time-honored tradition of praying in court. After Roy Moore took office in 1994 and refused to bring a halt to the tradition, the ACLU stepped up their threats of suit over the prayer and, in addition, began hyperventilating over the Ten Commandments plaque Justice Moore had placed in his courtroom. At the beginning of the third month of Justice Moore’s first term of office on March 31, 1995, the ACLU filed suit in U.S. district court against him on the basis that he had illegally imposed his religious beliefs on others in the courtroom, denouncing the prayer as “a religious test.”

------

Could someone please investigate and explain PL: 102-14, (7 Noehide Laws) passed in l991? I don't understand it's roots or purpose.

It seems Under this Congressional Law Idolatry,etc. is prohibited punishable by beheading. Endorsed by GWBush, Sr.,etc. in honor of Rabbi Scheerson?


445 posted on 04/21/2005 5:59:03 AM PDT by juzcuz
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