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To: Tailgunner Joe
To the contrary, however, the left’s beloved “separation of church and state” mantra originated not in the Constitution, but in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 (11 years after the First Amendment was incorporated into the Constitution) regarding their concerns that the Congregationalists may abuse their power to attain a favored position. Explicitly, Jefferson wrote: “[the] wall of separation between church and state…is a one-directional wall. It keeps the government from running the church, but makes sure that Christian principles will always stay in government.”

I am no supporter of the separation of Church and state, but this quote seems fabricated. Here is the information about the actual letter. Bizarre that Jefferson should be relied on for interpretation, though. Justice Rehnquist debunked this nonsense in Wallace v. Jaffree:

It is impossible to build sound constitutional doctrine upon a mistaken understanding of constitutional history, but unfortunately the Establishment Clause has been expressly freighted with Jefferson's misleading metaphor for nearly 40 years. Thomas Jefferson was of course in France at the time the constitutional Amendments known as the Bill of Rights were passed by Congress and ratified by the States. His letter to the Danbury Baptist Association was a short note of courtesy, written 14 years after the Amendments were passed by Congress. He would seem to any detached observer as a less than ideal source of contemporary history as to the meaning of the Religion Clauses of the First Amendment.

6 posted on 04/15/2005 5:37:03 PM PDT by gbcdoj (In the world you shall have distress. But have confidence. I have overcome the world. ~ John 16:33)
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To: gbcdoj; Tailgunner Joe
“[t]he display of God’s law was not done to make any bold statement, to intimidate or offend anyone, or to push any particular religion. It was simply a reminder that this country was established on a particular God and His divine, revealed laws; it reflected the Christian faith of our founders.”

Yet the Alabama Constitution indicates that no particular religion (meaning including Christianity, and Judeo-Christianity) be given legal preference.

You can't erect the 10 commandments in a courthouse saying that the country's laws were founded on them, and then say you're not giving them preference.

But then again, this case is full of contradictions. Anything involving Roy Moore, the ACLU, and the Souther Poverty Center would. The clowns deserve each other, but they made a mockery of our laws in the process.

People who can't see the irony in what Roy Moore and his opponents did to each other are blind.

8 posted on 04/15/2005 6:18:27 PM PDT by risk
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To: gbcdoj
Jefferson did write the letter twelve years after the ratification of the Bill of Rights. In fact if one wished to go deeper, the phrase " Separation of Church and State" was not the brainchild of Thomas Jefferson.
Read about James Madison and find where the phrase "Separation of Church and State" came from and why?
The whole idea of the Amendment One (1) was to protect the people from the government not the government from the people. The Amendment itself is very self-explanatory. Furthermore, this particular case had been brought before the Justices time and time again but to no avail. Unfortunately, the courts were ripe for the picking after FDR and a precedent setting travesty took place that has taken on the power of a run away Mac truck.
27 posted on 04/15/2005 7:00:39 PM PDT by Paige ("Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." --George Washington)
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To: gbcdoj

The falicy in Rehnquist's argument in Wallace v. Jaffree is his premise. The name of the doctrine of Separation of Church and State may have come from Jefferson's letter, but the legal substance was derived from James Madison's Memorial and Remonstrance of 1785 and the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom.

Jefferson wrote the first draft of the Statute for Religious Freedom, Madison revised it, the Virginia General Assembly made a few changes and finally entacted it 1786.

FS




735 posted on 12/26/2005 6:55:52 PM PST by FredFlash
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To: gbcdoj

Justice Rehnquist wrote that it is impossible to build sound doctrine upon a mistaken understanding of constitutional history. He then proceeds to found a new doctrine on the frivolous premise that the legal substance of the establishment clause was derived from a letter that President Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists.

Would some one please point out to me the First Amendment legal principles, rules and theories that were derived from Thomas Jefferson’s letter? Rehnquist once said that 99% of the meaning of the religion clauses is determined by the way you define the word “religion”.

The definition of “religion”, for First Amendment purposes, was derived from the Memorial and Remonstrance written by James Madison. See Reynolds v. U. S. (1878). That would leave only 1% of the meaning of the establishment clause that could have possibly been derived from Jefferson’s letter.

When Rehnquist read the establishment clause, I think he was sniffing glue with Clarence Thomas.


744 posted on 01/13/2006 4:03:41 PM PST by FredFlash
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