Vatican does not know identity of "secret" cardinal appointed by pope

Yahoo News ^ | April 5, 2005

[agere_contra]

Thanks NY! I learn something every day!

[BlackRazor]

"I heard somewhere that JPII reinstated the super majority. Anyone know for sure?"

Here's what Newsweek said in the linked article below:

"At the end of each day, all the ballots are burned, with black smoke signaling that no one has won the required two-thirds support for election. If someone is elected, a chemical substance is added to produce white smoke. In a revision of the rules, Pope John Paul II allowed for a switch to a majority vote if no one is elected after about 12 days."

It seems that JPII is the one who added the simple majority revision after the 12th day, if the article is accurate.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7370326/site/newsweek/

[Mount Athos]

"Naturally, if there is something we will communicate it when it is read."

I hope they use discretion, since he might have been kept secret for a reason, it might be a prison/death sentence to announce it in some oppressive countries.

[ordinaryguy]

Deep Throat?

[sittnick]

"And will the real cardinal please stand up"

There WAS a show called "What's My Line", and a rotating panel including Arlene Francis. But that was NOT the show with the question, "Will the REAL [blankity-blank] please stand up?"

I believe at one point Garry Moore hosted both shows, and I seem to remember Bill Cullen doing "To Tell the Truth" in later years. In "What's My Line?", there was only one guest at a time, who may or may not have been masked. The panelists asked Yes/No questions and had to figure out what was so special about the person.

In To Tell the Truth, a long description of who the person was had been read to the panelists. Three guests would step forward, stating "My name is [blankity-blank]" etc., but two were lying. The panelists were allowed to ask any of the guests questions (Kitty Carlisle and Orson Bean and SOupy Sales come to mind) and using the judgement of mannerisms, and the answers and consistency with probing questions, the panelists had to determine who the genuine article was.

So, applied to today, you might see three men all stating "I am the Cradinal in pectore" in three different tones. The program would probably have a Chinese man, perhaps a middle easterner, and maybe and Indonesian or Vietnamese; or it could feature three Chinese to make it interesting. The panelists would ask "Where did you go to the seminary?" The phonies would have to have studied for the part well enough to give a plausible answer, and the panelists would have to know enough underlying information to determine if it was a plausible explanation.

No you COULD do "What's My Line?" this way. You have a (say), a Chinese fellow come on, saying something like "By day I work at a dairy in suburban Shanghai, and by night and on weekends I am in a top position in a huge international organization"

Ardene: "Is this organization non-profit?"

Cardinal: mm... Yes.

John Daly: "Is this organization tied in with the Red Chinese Government?" (audience laughter)

Cardinal: No!

Bennet Cerf: "Dows this organization have a significant presence in the United States?"

Cardinal: Yes.

etc.

A recent simulation of the show was portrayed in the movie "Catch me if you can"

[Lurking in Kansas]

"At the moment, nobody knows anything about it. Before the pope's death, it wasn't revealed"

Okay, I confess, it's me.

[rwa265]

Think Yasser will be greeting the Pope at the Pearly Gates?

[Non-Sequitur]

Thus my guess (for the two cents it's worth) is that he is/was Stanislas Dziwisz himself (the Pope's faithful aide since Crakow)

Why the need for secrecy then?

[Mark in the Old South]

Fr Malachi Martin used to talk about an underground Church. Could this mystery Cardinal be a "floating" Cardinal as well?

I am with those who think a power struggle is coming, I have predicted it several times in the past. Heck what do I know I also predicted this Pope would live till 2011, giving him a 33 year papacy.

I suspect he has been embalmed. When I heard the funeral would be Friday I thought something was up. While I do not rule out incorruptible you don't make plans on it other than the decision to embalm or not to embalm. Incorruptible will take much more time to prove than Friday permits.

[Non-Sequitur]

So was Paul VI and John Paul I.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

It doesn't matter. The secret cardinal would have no validity now.

In Petto

An Italian translation of the Latin in pectore, "in the breast", i.e. in the secret of the heart. It happens, at times, that the pope, after creating some cardinals in consistory, adds that he has appointed one or more additional cardinals, whom he reserves in petto, and whom he will make known later: "alios autem [v.g. duos] in pectore reservamus, arbitrio nostro quandoque declarandos." Until they have been publicly announced these cardinals acquire no rights, and if the pope dies before having declared their names they do not become members of the Sacred College; but when he has proclaimed their elevation at a subsequent consistory, they take rank from the date of their first nomination and receive from that date all the emoluments accruing to their office. This is a method that the popes have sometimes adopted to ensure poor ecclesiastics a competency to meet all the expenses incident to their promotion. At the consistory of 15 March, 1875, Pius IX announced that he was creating and reserving in petto five cardinals, whose names would be found, in case of his death, in a letter annexed to his will. But the canonists having raised serious doubts as to the validity of such a posthumous publication, Pius IX published their names in the consistory of the following 17 September (See CARDINAL.).

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08025b.htm

[FormerACLUmember]

There is a large and severely persecuted Catholic community in China, as well as North Korea. It is almost certainly a secret Chinese Cardinal, and he is probably already in jail.

[Mark in the Old South]

It would be a convenient time for the Antichrist to take over Rome. I hope everyone gets out on time Friday.

Sleep tight everyone.

[Non-Sequitur]

The main speculation is that it's the archbishop of Hongkong, Joseph Zen, who has been an outspoken critic of the Chinese government.

Makes more sense than the speculation that he may be in an Arab country. China has been without a Cardinal since Cardinal Wu Chen-Chung died in 2002 and Cardinal Kung Pin-Mei died in 2000. China would be touchy about a new one being named without they're signing off on him.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

They can wait a day or two to see if he's incorruptible and then run him through the process before he gets too rank.

[colorado tanker]

What takes time is the preparation for the reading of a will, which generally involves assembling all beneficiaries and interested persons. In this case, that could involve people from all over the world.

The fact that there has not been an official reading does not mean the will has not been read.

[Mark in the Old South]

You need a year IMHO

They buried Sister Lucia two days after her death. She will stay in the convent for a year then she will be moved to the Fatima Cathedral for permanent internment.

With all due respects to the Holy Father, Sister Lucia has my vote for the most likely incorruptible in our lifetimes. The two other Fatima seers turned out to be incorrupt and near incorrupt. Which matched words the Holy Mother spoke to them about their going to Heaven. The little girl would go but the little boy needed to say a great many decades of the Rosary first.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

You need a year IMHO

Not if he starts to go sooner.

[ELS]

If you want to watch the talking heads' explode, that's a good time to get out the popcorn.

LOL!