Skip to comments.Experts: New Pope Unlikely to Be American
Posted on 04/03/2005 6:56:32 AM PDT by bd476
Cardinals attend a Mass for the late Pope John Paul II celebrated by the Vatican secretary of State, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, not seen, on the steps of St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican, Sunday April 3, 2005. (AP Photo/Massimo Sambucetti)
Apr 3, 2005 When the cardinals enter their secretive conclave to pick the new pope, the 11 Americans voting will be the second-largest national group behind the Italians. But don't expect an American pope Vatican experts are absolutely convinced it won't happen.
"The economic, political and military power of the United States leads to resentments, and that's part of the human dynamic," George Weigel, John Paul II's biographer, said before the pope's death.
An American would be "virtually impossible," he said.
The Rev. Richard John Neuhaus of First Things magazine agreed. An American pontiff "would give not only the appearance but perhaps the substance of increasing what is perceived by many as the inordinate hegemony of American power."
The Rev. Thomas Reese of America magazine noted that in past centuries "the church always tried to keep (the papacy) out of the hands of the superpower" of the day, whether the Holy Roman Empire, Spain or France. The exception, the 14th century French popes who moved the Holy See to Avignon, proved disastrous.
There are other factors that make Americans unattractive papal candidates.
Popes need to be the masters of many languages but most Americans are fluent only in English, Reese said.
The country's clerical sex abuse scandal also hasn't helped America's reputation within the church and in Rome, and the U.S. church already had a reputation for being troublesome.
Observers also predict the American cardinals won't form any united bloc to work effectively for a particular policy, candidate or region such as neighboring Latin America.
The U.S. cardinals "are not as united as they were 10 or even five years ago," Neuhaus said, and lack the "common mind and approach that has characterized the American cardinals at some points in the past."
They range from staunch conservatives like Francis George of Chicago and James Stafford, head of a Vatican tribunal, to Los Angeles' Roger Mahony and Washington's Theodore McCarrick, regarded as rather more flexible and pragmatic.
"...regarded as rather more flexible and pragmatic."
Oh, is this what they are calling it now?
But four out of five experts agree: He WILL be Catholic.
Intersesting that "conservative" is on one end of this spectrum, but "flexible" and "pragmatic" are on the other end.
Will they consult the UN?
But I'm sure some reporter, somewhere, will write an article stating that while the new pope will be Catholic, there are probably some Jews out there that are more flexible and pragmatic that could better fill the post.
Main reason may be that they (Catholics) fear any influence from the liberal MSM.
I've noticed over the last 24 hrs that many of the talking heads are not quite pressuring the Cardinals to elect a 3rd worlder.....eraldo, dor instanc, last nite spent considerable time "discussing" this with a Priest and a Catholic watcher/pundut/author. I've seen others do this as well.
Where does spirituality and qualification fit in?
....Geraldo, for instance...
Good catch, Izzy Dunne.
However, depending on the context, "flexible" pretty much defines Cardinal Roger Mahony.
LOL, great one.
the ascension of the French Popes and the move of the Papacy to Avignon (now called the Avignon captivity) resulted directly from the murder of two Popes and the seizure of the Papacy by armed forces of King Phillip of France, led by Guillaume de Nogart.
The Conclave of Cardinals that chose the French Popes was made up of Frenchmen originally loyal to Philip appointed by him after dismissing, running off or murdering, almost all of the sitting Cardinals. After Philip's untimely death (he was cursed by one of his victims to "meet me before the throne of God for judgement and did die within a year) the Kings of France continued to hold the reins of appointments of Cardinals for nearly 70 years, and therefore held the Papacy as a puppet of their rule.
To this day the Catholic Church still pretends that this was all somehow OK and we should all just ignore this bizarre episode as having no importance.
Oh, and the Templars really were heretics. Philip and Guillaume said so as an excuse to sieze their treasury and lands. It must be true. A Catholic King said so and the Pope who dared to challenge him on his crimes died (of poisoning). It must be God's truth, otherwise He woudln't have allowed it to happen.
The press in other parts of the world are not conservative.
That whole 'superpower of the day' comment is nonsense. The reason that the papacy has generally stayed out of the hands of the superpower of the day is simply because Italy hasn't been the superpower of the day since before Emperor Constantine the Great....
Name: H.E. Lubomyr Card. HUSAR
Position: Major Archbishop of Lviv of the Ukrainians
Age: 72 (Born Sunday, February 26, 1933)
Cardinal since: Wednesday, February 21, 2001
Title: Cardinal Priest of Santa Sofia a Via Boccea
Cardinal Husar was born on 26 February 1933 in Lviv (Ukraine). He left the Ukraine with his parents during World War II in 1944. He studied at the Catholic University of America and Fordham University in New York before his ordination on 30 March 1958 for the eparchy of Stanford of the Ukrainians (USA). From 1958-1969, he taught at St Basil's College Seminary, Stamford. Then he was pastor at Kerhonkson from 1966-1969. He undertook further studies from 1969-1972 at the Pontifical Urbanian University in Rome obtaining his doctorate in theology. He then entered the Monastery of "Studiti" in Grottaferrata, Italy, in 1973 and was made Superior in 1974.
He was consecrated a bishop on 2 April 1977 in Castelgandolfo (Rome) by Cardinal Josyf Slipyd, Major-Archbishop of Lviv of the Ukrainians, without papal approval. He was named Archimandrite of the Studiti Monks in Europe and America in 1978. He organized a new monastery of Studiti monks in the eparchy of Ternopil, Ukraine in 1994 and was elected by the Synod of Bishops of the Ukrainian Church as exarch of the archiepiscoapl exarchy of Kyiv-Vyshorod, Ukraine in 1995. This was confirmed by the Holy Father on 22 February 1996. He was named auxiliary bishop of Lviv of the Ukrainians by the Synod of Bishops of the Ukrainian Church on 14 October 1996. Pope John Paul II made him apostolic administrator of the Major-Archdiocese of Lviv of the Ukrainians on 23 December 2000 and he was elected Major Archbishop on 25 January 2001 with confirmation of the appointment from the Holy Father on 26 January 2001.
However if one were to go by the Benedictine prophecy of St. Malachy, Husar is not the next Pope. CNN guest Catholic writer for catholic newspaper spoke with Ukranian Cardinal Husar on plane from US to Rome. Cardinal said they are looking for a Pope that could accomidate the beliefs of other branches of Christianity so that all Christian churches could be more united, and whom could change the papacy to allow this. They are considering a Bishop instead of a Cardinal, this means there are potentially 3,000 Plus candidates for Pope. This would allow more of a possibility of a Benedictine being elected Pope as predicted through the prophecy. There is only one Cardinal I have come across in my research that could possibly meet the Benedictine prophecy, Cardinal Vinko Puljic, Archbishop of Vrhbosna, Sarajevo, but his links to the order are loose.
The passage of time has proved doubters of St. Malachy wrong, for his prophecies have turned out to be amazingly accurate. He even prophesied the precise date of his own death, and got it right. The prophecies concern the papacy, starting with Pope Celestine II in 1143. In all, 112 popes and their characteristics are listed from 1143 to the "end of the world."
Here are descriptions of the final popes according to Malachy:
Pastor et Nauta/Shepherd and Navigator: John XXIII (1958 -1963), patriarch of Venice (a city full of sailors) led his flock to a modernization of the Church through the Ecumenical Council. John chose two symbols for this Council -- a cross and a ship.
Flors Florum/Flower of Flowers: Paul VI (1963-1978) had a coat-of-arms depicting three fleurs-de-lis.
De Medietate Lunae/From the Half Moon: John Paul I (1978-1978) had the given name of Albino Luciani or "white light." Half-way into his short reign, a lunar eclipse occurred.
De Labore Solis/From the Toil of the Sun [Labore could also be Effort, Distress, Suffering, Trouble, leading to quite a few variations. The preceding is the usual translation.]: John Paul II was born during the solar eclipse of May 18, 1920.
De Gloria Olivae/From the Glory of the Olives: The Order of Saint Benedict has claimed that this pope will come from their ranks. Saint Benedict himself prophesied that before the end of the world his Order, known also as the Olivetans, will triumphantly lead the Catholic Church in its fight against evil.
Petrus Romanus/Peter of Rome: The Final Pope? "In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Peter the Roman, who will feed his flock among many tribulations, after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people."
Could this man be "the Glory of the Olives" :
Name: H.E. Vinco Card. PULJIC
Position: Archbishop of the Vrhbosna
Age: 59 (Born Saturday, September 08, 1945)
Cardinal since: Monday, February 28, 1994
Title: Cardinal Priest of S Chiara a Vigna Clara
Cardinal Vinko Puljic, Archbishop of Vrhbosna, Sarajevo, was born on 8 September 1945 in Prijecani, in the Diocese of Banja Luka. He completed his secondary education at the interdiocesan minor seminary of Zagreb and the minor seminary of Djakovo. He studied philosophy and theology at the major seminary of Djakovo and was ordained a priest in the Cathedral of Djakovo on 29 June 1970. Pope John Paul II appointed him Archbishop of Vrhbosna, Sarajevo on 19 November 1990 and in 1991 at the tomb of St Peter ordained him Bishop on the Solemnity of the Epiphany.
His family was materially poor but rich in the Catholic faith. He was the 12th of 13 children. When he was barely three years old, his mother Kaja, died. His father remarried and the little Vinko with his other brothers and sisters found a new mother in his step-mother Ana, who brought him up as if he were her own son.
Already as a child he displayed the great piety which he had inherited from his family when every evening they knelt to pray the Holy Rosary. His father Ivan, led the prayers. Later, as spiritual director at the minor seminary Vicko Zmajevic of Zara (Croatia) whenever he saw a boy having difficulty praying with his arms extended, Fr Vinko would frequently remember the words of his father who used to say to him: 'Son, remember, Jesus hung on the cross with his arms extended, while you cannot even manage to pray for a couple of minutes extending yours!' One of the characteristics of young Vinko's piety was a special devotion to the Mother of God, which he has always retained.
In addition to his family, young Vinko's spiritual formation was deeply influenced by the Trappist Monastery of Marija Zvijezda, located not far from his native village. It was one of the monks precisely, who helped Vinko's father to send his son to the minor seminary of Zagreb. Actually, Fr Ante Artner sold his motorbike and gave the proceeds to Vinko's father who did not have enough money to pay his board there. This story was only told by Father Ante on the occasion when the new priest Vinko celebrated his first Mass in 1970.
After his ordination to the priesthood, he became chaplain in Banja Luka, until spring 1973. Before moving to the parish of Sasina, where he stayed from June to November 1973, for three months, from April to June, he worked in the Episcopal Curia of Banja Luka. From 1973 to 1978 he was parish priest of Ravska, near the mine of Ljubija. In autumn 1978, he was named spiritual director of the minor seminary Vicko Zmajevic of Zara.
As soon as he arrived at the seminary, he immediately made it into a large family. The seminarians were like younger brothers to him, while for them, he was a real father and elder brother whom they could trust. During the summer holidays, he did not lose touch with his seminarians, but visited them in their villages, and corresponded with them. He was concerned above all that his boys should understand and better accept their priestly vocation. During one of his stays in Zadar, he was confessor at the Benedictine monastery and organized numerous spiritual retreats for priests, seminarians and women religious.
When his work as spiritual director of the minor seminary of Zadar came to an end in summer 1987, he returned to his Diocese and was named parish priest of Bosanska Gradika. He stayed there until summer 1990 when he was transferred to Sarajevo as vice- rector of the major seminary of the ecclesiastical province of Vrhbosna. On 19 November 1990, while he was in Sarajevo the news of his appointment as Archbishop reached him. He thus became the sixth Archbishop of that See after the reconstruction of the ordinary ecclesiastical hierarchy in 1881 in present-day Bosnia-Herzegovina, after the Turkish occupation which had lasted more than four centuries.
His pastoral ministry in the Archdiocese of Vrhbosna, Sarajevo began on 19 January 1991. In those months in Sarajevo, Bosnia-Herzegovina, as also in the rest of what used to be Yugoslavia and in other formerly communist countries, after the collapse of the Berlin Wall, there was a spell of freedom and democracy. As Archbishop, he immediately focused on making pastoral visits in the Diocese in order to become more familiar with the religious and social situation there.
During these visits he paid particular attention to the meetings with priests. But signs of the evil to come were soon evident. In August 1991 hostilities in Croatia began. In Bosnia-Herzegovina fighting broke out in November and in Ravno in the south of the country, and in April 1992 attacks on the towns, including Sarajevo began.
In the situation created by the war, he immediately became involved in helping the thousands of refugees and exiles, mobilizing all the forces of the Church and people of good will. He began in particular to launch heartfelt appeals for the respect of the inalienable rights of the human person without distinction of race or religious creed, for the right of each to live in his own home, for mutual respect, for unity in plurality. At times, there was opposition to such appeals.
In his tireless work of peace making, he met with many political figures and politicians, at home and abroad. In addition, to give a greater impulse to the commitment of religion for a just peace, he met more than once with the Orthodox and Muslim religious leaders of Bosnia-Herzegovina. In this respect, it is enough to remember the interreligious meeting held from 1-3 October 1993 in Sarajevo with Cardinal Roger Etchegaray, President of the Pontifical Councils of Justice and Peace and 'Cor Unum'; with the Apostolic Nuncio in Bosnia-Hercegovina, Archbishop Francesco Monterisi; with the Catholic, Orthodox, Jewish and Muslim religious leaders of the city and of the country. And also, the meeting on 17 May 1994 at Sarajevo airport, with the Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church, Alexis II, Patriarch Pavle of the Serbian Orthodox Church, and Cardinal Franjo Kuharic, Metropolitan Archbishop of Zagreb.
During the war, he frequently risked his life while making pastoral trips to his parishes, especially those affected by the scourge of war. In one of these visits he was imprisoned for twelve hours by the Serbian military in Ilida, near Sarajevo, running a serious risk when he rode in a UN military tank of UNPROFOR to Vare, a town held by the Croatians but which precisely at that time was occupied by the Muslims.
Although he was in the way of those who did not agree with his attitude, he gained widespread esteem among the people and politicians, becoming a reference point at the most difficult moments and in the most acute crises. His radio and written messages have always been positively accepted by the people, both Catholic and Muslim and of other religions. As a witness to so many bitter tears, on behalf of the people suffering because of the war, he has often said: 'Do not leave us alone!', as he said in Milan on 23 September 1993 at an interreligious meeting. More than once he has clearly stated: 'I must raise my voice against all crimes'. Confirming the readiness of Catholics to live together with others, in his speech during his ad limina Apostolorum visit in January 1993, he told the Holy Father: As for us, we are seeking to make contact with the representatives of other religious communities: with the Serbian Orthodox Church and with the Islamic Community'.
On various occasions he has shown his ability to be a true Gospel peace-maker, sensitive to the people's suffering, open to dialogue and faithful to the principles of coexistence among the various social, religious and ethnic groups. On 12 November 1992, Pope John Paul II in his letter addressed to all the Bishops of Bosnia-Herzegovina wrote to him: 'When I imposed hands on you on 6 January 1991 to consecrate you in the office of Pastor of the Church of Sarajevo, I had no idea that very shortly your cross would be so heavy and your cup so bitter'.
In April 1997, Cardinal Puljic welcomes John Paul II to Sarajevo; a pastoral visit the Holy Father had desired to make in September 1994 but was unable to due to the war.
Created and proclaimed Cardinal by John Paul II in the consistory of 26 November 1994. Titular church St. Clare in Vigna Clara.
Since 1995 until March 2002, he was the President of the Bishops Conference of Bosnia-Ercegovina.
The Rev. Thomas Reese of America magazine noted that in past centuries "the church always tried to keep (the papacy) out of the hands of the superpower" of the day .....
Yep. They were talking about this on FOX News yesterday.
Looks like the next Pope may be Italian again maybe??
I think I heard that PJP II was the first non-Italian Pope in ~500 years?
Here is Rome's chance to unite Christianity, elect a Lutheran as Pope!
*Sputter*. . .you owe me a new keyboard. Coffee all over the thing.
Apparently, they don't teach logic in the Jesuit seminaries these days. Or in the journalism schools.
How does the fact that "most Americans are fluent only in English" have any bearing on any one particular individual who would be a candidate to the papacy?
There are many reasons why an American pope is extremely unlikely, but the above is not one of them.
Most of the American Cardinals and Many bishops should be in Prison, never mind being Pope.
"...regarded as rather more flexible and pragmatic."
"Progressive" is out of style right now.
It will be interesting to find out.
They are on a strict schedule to pick a replacement, too, I believe.
I think I heard FOX News say something like 2 weeks, or 15 days or thereabouts? Not sure.
"There will be two popes before the end of the world - the first will be Polish the next and the last will be Negro [black]."
the other four thing it will be Osama Obama, after all in Illinois he is considered the second coming.
I wonder if the Democrats, out of force of habit, will try to filibuster the nomination.
That just wouldn't be right.
The media certainly promoted the anti-Vaticanism of American Catholics but there didn't seem to be much in the way of counter-acting that anti-Vaticanism.
For too many American Catholics: No immediate, drastic reform = bad Vatican.
I read it for years.
Now we reap what we sowed.
John-Paul II just never did enough. We didn't know how good we had it with him. We won't see his likes again for a long time.
No disagreement with the article. Just adding my own thoughts.
Is that what it takes to be head of the Church?
Then why not get a Democrat? How 'bout Clinton? He would be flexible and pragmatic enough to change religions for the post. He's not busy these days. Lol.
Not busy?? Last I checked he's the junior Senator from New York..
This is highly offensive. It's not like we're applying for the job.
Never had any expectation of a US-born pope--but now I have expectations of an anti-American one.
Actually it is more of abiding by strict ritual. They will stay as along as it takes for them to elect a new Pontiff.
I think I heard FOX News say something like 2 weeks, or 15 days or thereabouts?
I believe the conclave begins in 10 days - following the official 9 days of mourning.
I could be wrong - consideirng it was 26 years since it has been done, so I may not be quite as up on the strictures as I once was.
The Conclave is to begin 15-20 days after the death of the Pope. The new rules put into place by John Paul II says that they can if a 2/3 majority does not elect the new Pope after 12 days a simple majority of 50% + 1 % will suffice to elect the next Pope.
That is very interesting. Have you seen any of this St. Malchy stuff on the threads the past few days? I think there are supposed to be two more now, but then some where saying the last "pope" would really be the anti-christ, but then others were disputing that.
How freaked out will you be if it's a black guy chosen?
I hope they don't pick an Italian, to me that would be boring. And, hey, let me say, I LOVE Italians!
Thank you...........I knew he had made changes to it, but wasn't sure of the exact details.
Apologies for my mistakes.
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