First they came for the Jews and we said nothing.......
And all the times they've called me a "moderate?" Thank God for that!
Posted on 03/31/2005 4:53:58 AM PST by billorites
The scene is familiar to anyone with a nodding acquaintance with American politics — prayer vigils, demonstrations, talk-radio hosts obsessing, the Christian right closing in. But in the terrible tragedy of Terri Schiavo, the center is joining the debate with a ferocity usually reserved for the right. Morris is the author of Rewriting History, a rebuttal of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s (D-N.Y.) memoir, Living History.
As in most social debates, the moderates have the majority, but, unlike discussions over abortion or gay marriage, in this debate they also match the intensity of their conservative critics.
Most of us will never have an abortion. We are either too male, too old, too inactive or too moral. The life/choice debate is, for us, a bit of a spectator sport. So is the focus on gay marriage. We may care about the issue, but, as Clinton would often put it, we don’t have a dog in that hunt.
But we will all die — and don’t we know it! We can all see ourselves at the wrong end of a feeding tube, sucking out sustenance to sustain a life we might more willingly forfeit. We can not only put ourselves in the place of those most intimately concerned with Schiavo’s fate — her husband and parents — but we can put ourselves right there in the bed, in a coma — which the doctors call a “persistent vegetative state” — with no hope and no life worth living.
A recent poll by the New York Post showed that, while two-thirds of Americans favor the removal of Terri’s feeding tube, more than 80 percent would want their own tube to be removed were they similarly situated. Schiavo is not just a political issue to those who advocate terminating her life support. She is our worst personal nightmare.
To those who oppose the right-to-life position, the political intervention by state and federal legislators and executives, is, truly, the most intrusive example of the very big governmental excesses that the political right decries.
One can well understand the passion of the pro-lifers on the issue of abortion. They have a fetus to protect. For them, the commitment to preserving life carries into the womb. We may not agree, but we can certainly respect and empathize with their view.
But with Schiavo, there is no fetus. There is just Terri. And when we put ourselves in her place, more than 80 percent of us think we would want to die. To be told that we must linger in a non-life because of the dictates of a governor wedded to the religious right and a Congress in the grip of ideologically driven leaders seems to the vast majority of us a level of government interference we find too intrusive to tolerate.
Next to a decision that we must live as vegetables, OSHA regulations, IRS bullying and EPA stubbornness pale by comparison. How ironic that, at the precise moment when most of us are prepared to embrace the agenda of the libertarian conservatives, we find the Republican Party, their supposed champions, running screaming in the other direction.
Politically, the Schiavo case will hurt the Republican Party, but the damage will soon fade. The president has stepped lightly on the issue, and his popularity and effectiveness will not be affected. But Gov. Jeb Bush (R-Fla.) better look for a new line of work. The right is mad at him for not standing in the hospice door. The center is furious at his butting in where most Americans, and Floridians, feel he has no right to be. Only the left is overjoyed to see a possible presidential contender caught in the crossfire.
Jeb is showing that he lacks George’s ability to dance and duck. We elected Bush Sr. knowing he was once pro-choice, proof that he was no fanatic. We chose Bush Jr. because he let us know, early in the campaign, that he would not spend his presidency relitigating — literally or figuratively — Roe v. Wade, however abortion offended his sense of right and wrong. He made clear he had other, higher priorities.
But by taking a doctrinaire position and then backing off it, Jeb Bush has shown us that he would charge where others would tread with caution. Too bad. We might have needed him to stop Hillary.
First they came for the Jews and we said nothing.......
And all the times they've called me a "moderate?" Thank God for that!
I will read it in more detail as I have time but the first item I perused was a long chronology of the case sent by attorney Jay Wolfson to Gov. Bush. It has so far not affected my views as it clearly didn't with Gov. Bush either, but an attorney's job is to selectively present things in such a way as to justify his client and I have no problem with that. But I will try to read the the collection of documents with an open mind.
I hope your comments are more directed at the "faithful" Mr. Wilson than to me. I'm only hoping that if there is any evidence to be found of past physical mistreatment of Ms. Schindler by her husband, or evidence of what caused her to be deprived of oxygen for eight minutes while he was the only other person in the house, that it isn't missed or covered up due to incompetence or collusion. There's been more than enough of both in this whole tragic story.
Yes. I am saying that those who would view the results of any autopsy as vindication of Michael Schiavo do not understand the limitations of such a study.
The GOP getting serious about judges....
Hilarious. Nearly every judge to rule on the Schaivo case was appointed by, or has a political history as a Republican.
Sorry, GOP judges, who believe in the constitution, aren't going to make up law like you're heroes who created Roe v. Wade from thin air.
I think once this issue is debated when future legislature is being considered and the truth comes out this woman wasn't PVS, that she didn't consent to die in this situation and that her husband had motives to want her dead, the public opinion is going to shift dramatically on this issue.
It damn well was her family's business and NO ONE should be starved to death without their consent and without evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that he or she is brain-dead or PVS.
Most people only know what they hear from the "mainstream" media about this case. Once the facts get out -- and they will during future legislative debates -- I think the polls are going to be considerably different and the Democrats and left will suffer politically.
Check this out, Mr. Big Shot! A court appointed world-reknowned neurologist's opinion of Terri's condition in 2002.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1374661/posts
Contrarily, an autopsy might open up a host of new questions about what was going on in the Schiavo household fifteen years ago. But it won't answer those questions to the satisfaction of all sides.
It seems like most people don't want to be bothered to consider what precedent this all sets. But that, and a strong gut feeling (which, by the way, we're all allowed to have) that Mr. Schiavo's motive all along has been to conceal his part in the creation of his wife's condition, are the things which have moved me to comment on a matter that I otherwise wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
But what do I know? I'm just another Bible thumping nut case Neanderthal (not really but that's the label all but the atheists like Nat Hentoff, who sees this accurately as a civil rights issue, are being hit with).
You mean William M. Hammesfahr, M.D.? He is an alternative medicine doctor, not a neurologist. Nor is he World Renowned. The guy is IMHO a quack and probably has done more to hurt the Schindlers cause that to help it.
Here is some background information on this doctor Hammesfahr. After reading it, would you want him to treat you or a family member?
In Florida law, if a person is incapacitated, the spouse is first in line to make the decisions. Independent physicians appointed by the court, not ones paid for by the Schindlers or Schaivo, said she was PVS. Greer simply followed the law and rejected Terri's parent's request. What would you propose to replace this law? IMHO, if someone is PVS, a feeding tube is artificial support, just like a ventilator. Feeding tubes do get pulled from people.
Even this part?
We chose Bush Jr. because he let us know, early in the campaign, that he would not spend his presidency relitigating — literally or figuratively — Roe v. Wade, however abortion offended his sense of right and wrong. He made clear he had other, higher priorities.
It made me completely aware of how biased the main stream media really is.
Terri's case also shows me that I can't trust some supposedly "unbiased" sources either.
Putting life and death decisions in the hands of one judge, a judge in this case that received money from one of the lawyers, is frightening to anyone believing in freedom and basic civil rights for all.
You are welcome. It is better to be informed on both sides of an issue than to simply carry on with only part of the information.
By the by, if Hammesfahr was such a quack why did the court appoint him? Were they prepared to discount any opinions he may have had contrary to their intent? That is, in fact, what they did.
The court didn't appoint him. He impeached himself regarding basic neurology information. He was hired by the Schindlers and I think that was part of the problem. The Schindlers have been really big on alternative medicine because traditional medicine has consistently come to the same conclusion, Terri is PVS. All of the doctors they hired as expert witnesses were from alternative medicine areas and that really hurt their credibility in court. The problem was they couldn't find any traditional or mainstream neurologist who would counter the arguement that Terri is PVS.
As the incestuous relationship between so many of the principals involved in this unfolds, I think the truth will be revealed.
I think this is going to go the way of JFK's assassination - layer upon layer of conspiracy theories. In any county or municipal politics, you will find all kinds of relationships between the local officials. People know people and that can be used to really confuse the issues at hand. I don't think there was any conspiracy amongst locals to do Terri in. The case basically rested on specific Florida Statutes (that aren't much different than those in other states) that give the spouse the responsibilty for the medical decisions in cases like these. Greer's hands were tied. He could have ruled against MS, but he would have been overturned on appeal. Personally, I think MS is a neandertal, but the law is on his side. The only solution is to change the law.
She wan't responsive in any cognitive way. It was all reflexes and are normal in PVS. The tapes were heavily edited to get a few seconds of reflexes corresponding to what was going on in the room. Isn't it kind of strange that the only people who say she wasn't PVS were ones that are associated with the Schindlers? There are a lot of other doctors and most of the nursing staff that say differently. There is also the CT scan and the EEGs that are strong indications of PVS. Let's see if the autopsy shows anything different.
If the information is correct, the first Judge to rule against the Schindlers' attempt to replace MS as guardian was a Judge Shame, aptly named IMO. All subsequent rulings seem to rest on that one.
The Schiindlers had gone to Shame when he was a lawyer planning to run for judge, not yet a judge. The Schindlers laid out to him their complaint and all the information they had about the case. Shame asked a very high retainer to take their case, in the opinion of some high enough to assure its rejection, and they did not retain him. They instead hired a less expensive woman associate of his who represented them in court where the judge was the newly elected Shame. Those circumstances alone should have prevented Shame from hearing the case as he not only had a conflict of interest but extensive prior knowledge of the case.
From the review of the case that I have read, they were very poorly represented by this woman and the case was decided against them. As I said, all other decisions seem to just build on that decision rather than any consideration of facts. This leaves them with judicially clean hands as the process was correctly followed. No matter how technically correct, this not not represent justice to me and many others.
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