Posted on 03/10/2005 5:32:34 AM PST by billorites
You would think that the number of Americans buried in Europe and Africa killed by Italian Fascists would lead the average Italian to approach the accidental death of an Italian patriot by American forces with some caution. But the time has long since passed since we Americans expect tact, grace or thoughtfulness from Europeans, even those who are our nominal allies.
We had thought to refrain from commenting on the Abu-Ghraib-du-jour that is the Guiliana Sgrena story. When we saw the item come across the wire our instincts told us that it would be the lead story in the European press in about 3 nano-seconds, and, further, that it would be the focus of that press for days. We guess we can take some cold comfort in knowing our instincts are still working properly.
But the recent absurd heights to which the story has risen has forced our hand. Really, we're not sure which is funnier: that an Italian Communist would think that she is significant enough to warrant our attention, let alone an assassination order, or the spectacle of a full state funeral for a fallen state security officer.
We mean no disrespect to the dead, but, somehow, we get the feeling the poor man's funeral would have been a bit less grand had he merely been beheaded by the usual suspects.
The incident shows the depths of the pathology that is Western anti-Americanism and offers, yet again, another cautionary and exemplary tale for Americans: until and unless we begin to decline to act as the world's superpower, the world's economic engine, the world's policeman, the world's lender of last resort in all instances, the Western pathology will grow. Like the over-spoiled adolescents of Orange County we grew up with, the nations of Europe and the wider West will continue with infantile temper tantrums and faux-rebellious posing, in one long hissy fit against "Daddy," putting at risk all that is of value in our Western Civilization.
Many have commented that yesterday's editorial in the Wall St. Journal put the case against Italy in this affair in too harsh a light. After all, Italy's government has been a stalwart ally at a time when we needed them.
We profoundly disagree. By paying jihadis millions of euros in ransom--twice--and then using the obviously accidental death of one of their security personnel as a whip to beat the Italian mob into an anti-American frenzy, the Italians have done nothing less than aid and abet terrorism. As the WSJ so aptly put it:
Arguably far more reckless was Italy's decision to pay ransom--reportedly of $6 million or more--to secure her release. Italy is also believed to have paid ransom for the release of two aid workers taken captive last year. The Italians know the U.S. opposes the policy, which may be why Ms. Sgrena's transfer to the airport was not sufficiently coordinated with U.S. forces.
Not only does paying ransom encourage more kidnapping--of Italians especially--it also puts money in the hands of the enemy in a country where $40 buys an automatic rifle and $200 an attack on U.S. forces. The shooting of a speeding car at a military checkpoint in a war zone is an unintentional tragedy, but the paying of ransom amounts to a policy of deliberately aiding terrorists.
We had thought when the President made the fateful decision to go to the U.N. to make the case for war against Iraq that he was making a profound mistake. The grounds for an American declaration of war, if only on broken cease fire terms, were rock-solid. Since then, however, we have become more convinced that the need to introduce real world responsibility into the body politic of the European Union and Canada was even more important for our long-term security, however painful such an exercise may be in the short term.
The bottom line here is that this episode shows both the limits and uses of multi-lateral war in the Age of Terrorism. On the one hand, we had the support of a European government which was then forced by events to patiently explain to its dangerously out-of-touch populace the stakes and why war was necessary. On the other, even after months of pointless slaughter, the open declaration of war against democracy loudly announced by the jihadis, the mass murders, the beheadings, the whipping of women who dare to speak, the execution of homosexuals because of who they are, the suicide bombings using the instruments of mercy, most Europeans still fear and loathe G.I. Joe more than Al-Zaqarwi.
We have no choice but to carry on fighting the good fight and hoping Europe and Canada will wake from its slumber.
At the same time, though, it's well past time for us to remove the safeguards that allow them to sleep in safety. Only until they live in our world will they understand it.
Let the boys from Turin defend South Korea. Let the girls from Madrid patrol Kosovo. Let the lads from St. John's patrol the Indonesian Straits. A gradual withdrawal from our over-powerful role will be painful, on all sides. But until and unless the man on the street in Europe and Canada feels the weight of responsibility, we will continue to witness these circuses.
this is anti-italian crap. The left is being so successful in selling the story they want to divide allies.
I can't believe so many in America are buying it. My American friends tell me it isn't so. Nonetheless it's sad to see it on FreeRepublic. Both government and the majority supporting it are fighting (succesfully) the attempt to transform an incident into a tool of anti-american propaganda and where from are the attacks coming now? From "conservatives"? I can't believe it.
I said elsewhere that MSM don't lie only about Dubya. The government here is REJECTING all false allegations by the left and jerks like Sgrena against the USA. A joint group of investigation will finally prove the commies
wrong and lying as usual. Why is so hard to get it? What's the point on going back to WWII? Do we deserve the same treatment of France that's currently helping (with others) these smear campaigns against Italy? Don't you see the aim of this overemphasized incident? Can't you see the same old MSM tactic? Unbelievable.
One must remember that the media in the United States supports the Communist of the world. Stalin was their God and most are disciples of the Communist whores. The left in Europe and the United States will make a lot of noise to try and hurt the United States, and those in Europe who support the United States. Most of the Italians know the Communist for what they are - non-humans - who are parasites of the earth. What really hurts me is that anyone would pay to free a non-human Communist. However, I am still returning to Italy for vacation as I do every year, the Italian people, especially in Naples, are outstanding. La buon vita in Italia
Even the official 'accident' statements I've seen were slanted toward punishing someone on the US side.
The author's point was that the rest of the west has to step up to responsibility, eventually figure out that the US must step in when they fail to do so...and learn that blaming the 'cowboys' for their inabilities was an alibi. onsibilities.
All (at least semi-sane) opinions are available here. I think most of us know what is going on.
Norton,
while I agree with you that our government should not try anything else except miltary actions to free hostages, facts are that we don't know what happened. Speculation about a ransom are being dismissed as false. But this is not the point, I am with you on this.
What I want to stress is that the policy on kidnappings is one thing, but the alleged "Italian reaction" to the incident is quite another.
We are DEFENDING the USA, not accusing it. What the government is saying (to the LEFT; NOT to Washington)is: you think the US is guilty? Ok now we'll investigate and rest assured tehy will cooperate, and then we'll see if what you say is right. Lo and behold, yesterday Sgrena and many other bastards in our left started to change their version. maybe it was not an ambush, maybe it was an accident...but Italy has to oppose the US anyway!!! Don't you see what's going on here?
other posts from me on this subject here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1359857/posts
Simply put, Sgrena was over there to take advantage of the Italian policy to pay ransoms. She did it to help fund the terrorists. She and her ilk should have never been allowed to go over there; the Italian government should have refused to pay for her release; the end result was that the terrorists got paid and a good man died. The Italian government should put Sgrena on trial for the death of this agent; convict; and hang her.
>Nonetheless it's sad to see it on FreeRepublic.
Especially this close to St. Patrick's day.
Oops.(;>))
Italy is serving in the coalition of the willing, bravely and with honor. It's that simple.
I do think this whole thing should be exposed for the communist plot that it is. We're disappointed that a ransom was paid because that money will be used to blow up Americans and Iraqis.
Italy has been an apparent ally, but this business of financing the terrorists via these ransom payments, are ultimately helping the enemy as much as if they had never been our allies at all. How many millions is Italy going to place in the hands of the terrorists? These millions are buying arms, explosives, and probably buying off the families of future "suicide" bombers.
The huge anti-U.S. "rallies" only pour more salt in the wounds...
Fabrizio,
I see it clearly, and think you're wholly right.
My wife is a Roman (though more a citizen of the world than her Italian passport would indicate) and sees it clearly.
The wedge they would use to divide us often works: we have lost friends because of our beliefs, or better said, because of the intolerance, myopia and poor judgment of others.
Ciao.
"apparent ally"?????
apparent ally my ass!!! So what's the secret conspiracy here? Let me remind you that back in 2003 it would've been FAR more convenient to side with those bastards Chirach and Schoreder and the Russian and the Chinese and UN and 99% of the media coalesced in the axis of weasel my friend.
And when Spain withdrew we remained there, although the pressure on us had become already intolerable. Try to be an Italian seeking business with Euro "brothers" these days. Try to travel to France or to fight for every single decision on the stupidiest thing in that stinky EU commission. Try to secure a peninsula in the middle of MEDITERRANEAN having to deal with the economic rules of the EU and with Brussels' PC policies. Apparent ally??? Our red cross remained in Baghdad when all the rest run away, it is well known that no-one captured or spotted more terrorists in Europe than we did, and every time we lost people in action we have repeated that nothing could push us out of Irak, Afghanistan, Kosovo and from anywhere our troops are.
I'll repeat it for the umpteenth time: I don't necessarily agree with everything my government does (do you agree with yours always? For instance when Kennedy obviously betrayed Cubans at Pigs Bay or when a war that was won on the military side ended up in yielding a nation to the North-Viets?). But can't you see what's going on here??? You are buying the leftist media bias and helping them to divide the coalition!!
The alleged ransom is not the point here, the point is that a normal case of friendly fire was transformed in a smear campaign, and all that because people are buying the MEDIA - i repeat: MEDIA - version of facts we by large ignore so far.
Italy has been our ally.
Moreover, rallies get reported by the liberal MSM, and those biased against us. But in truth, we are amply supplied with opposers, anti-war rally-ers, and the likes of John Kerry, Howard Dean, and other surrender monkeys.
Fabrizio is indeed right. The MSM has taken an accident in a war zone and they are using it against us.
Plymouth Sentinel,
thank you so much for your kind words, they're heart-warming.
(Btw I was born in the Eternal City too, I live 25 miles away from there. Don't get me started with Rome!! :-)) ).
Thanks again and God bless the USA (and Dubya, the more he makes them all freak out, the more we love him)
(You don't want to get me started on Kennedy...any Kennedy)
Fabrizio, it's one thing to hold an official position, another to work against us behind our backs. Now you might not agree, but I hold that paying off terrorists (so they can have the means to come at us again..and again...) is working against us. If they were doing it in secret (knowing how we'd feel about it) as is being alleged, that is "behind our backs." God bless the good Italians who have indeed helped in this war--but they've been betrayed by decisions at the top, too.
I'm with you, and of course we can use all the friends we can find.
HOWEVER, Italy is an ally but has been taking 'popular heat' for that decision. The majority of Italians are against the war (and have been since the start).
There are many in the Itialian gov't who are good men of honor and on the right track, BUT the Italian street seems to suffer from the same psycosis that many Euros suffer from. (That being the dysfunctional "daddy" resentment the origial poster described)
This is the reason the ransom was not gov't funds but rather private funds (takes out some of the 'political' sting), and it wasn't cordinated with us, and why they didn't want to stop at the checkpoint.
The commie lady's story and the shooting is almost tangential compared to the motivation/cause for the whole issue.
Oh yeah by the way... don't sweat it too much if people down on Italy. There is history to be proud of there, I'm confident you won't go the way of the Spanish and there will be a proud future as well.
You have a LONG ways to go to be on the level of France, or Germany (though it seems the populace is ALOT closer to it than the current gov't)
Are you sure you can tell the feelings of the populace here as opposed to the gov's policy? what sources exactly do you have? CNN, NYT? But let me tell you that no one, not even FOX did a great job with Italy so far and not only with this Sgrena mess. All they do is cut and paste reports from press agencies like AP or Reuters. Big deal.
Even polls by extremely biased sources show that the support for W and WOT is higher here than in the rest of the EU. If they report 25%, then make it 40-50%.
Do I really need to tell you about "polls"??? the way they're carried out with tricky questions and forged figures???? What's the estimate figure for Americans thinking that the US politics is currently being hijacked by a jew/evangelical conspiracy of greedy capitalists???
Do you really think that Europe is the only place on earth where the likes of Chomsky and Moore sell their garbage?? Are Howard Dean or Whoopy Goldberg Italian citizens?
I'll give you a couple of examples. When Dubya was here all media, FOX included (on the base of outsorced reporting) blindly accepted the figure of 500.000 people protesting given by the pacif(asc)ist organizations. Now I happened to be in Rome with my little Old Glory that day and we easily outnumbered the hippies that were coming from ALL OVER Europe (who paid for the trips, tickets and all the rest, I don't know).
Alhtough made of locals, families and ordinary guys like me, the cheering crowd was waaaay bigger than the "protestors". When we got home we could hear the police giving a more realistic 6-7000 jerks at the most. Do I need to tell you how media reportig works with leftist rallies????
In some cases they tried to damage monuments and shops and they had to be PROTECTED from the raging populace by the policemen (even the police troops outnumbered them).
When a truck bomb killed 20 of our guys in Nasiriyah 1.000.000 of people showed up at the funerals singing patriotic hymns and not a word against the USA, not an American flag was taken away from windows and W's popularity remained unaltered. The media were raving about "unexplicable" consensus for the Iraqi mission, shocked by an "unexpectedly" patriotic Italy.
Every time I hear people in the streets discussing terrorism I seldom hear people condemning the USA for the alleged "crimes against civilians". What I hear more often is the "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" attitude!!!!
Of course things are slowly changing. And you know why? I'll tell you why. After THREE YEARS of media/diplomatic bombardment on us pro-USA people are feeling isolated and tired, ironically right in the moment of victory, with democracy flourishing and terror in retreat everywhere! NOBODY ever takes the time to analyze our society more deeply than stereotypes.
Don't get me wrong: I am not saying that Italy is some sort of mediterranean Oklahoma or Nebraska. We're still an old, tired, lazy, socialism-infected European country. With all my love for my country, I am not ready to deny facts. And yet there's still a whole bunch of good people with common sense here, and all they get is the poor ability to counter media bias about us.
Although nothing is being reported by foreign media, today our secret services declared that the US forces were NOT informed of all the details of the operation Sgrena, so it might easily have been an ordinary case of friendly fire. The left is now shocked by this and Sgrena is changing her version again. The investigation thing is just normal procedure in these cases. Most important we are using it as a bone thrown to the left. It's the rope we're going to hang them with. Because facts will be checked, and facts are the left's foe. THINK! Our governement says nobody ever paid a ransom, that the alliance with the USA is stronger than ever and that no saddamite hippy can count on Italy's help for the future.
Why are we more ready to believe to the media?? THINK: who is going to benefit from this mess?? The press is working on American legitimate national pride to turn people against the allies, THINK!! We must separate the issue of alleged ransoms from the analysis of the relationships between allies and the way Italy is actually dealing with the aftermath of a media-created incident on the shaky base of an ordinary case of friendly fire.
Ok, sorry everybody for the lenghty post and the clumsy english, but this story is so hurting in so many ways and I have to post about the same mess in a hurry and to 2 different threads!
God bless the USA.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1359857/posts
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