Terri Schiavo's parents ask judge to let her divorce husband

The Miami Herald ^ | 2-28-05 | VICKIE CHACHERE

[TAdams8591]

VICKIE CHACHERE

Associated Press

TAMPA, Fla. - Terri Schiavo's parents asked a Pinellas court judge Monday to allow her to divorce her husband - in either life or death - in a court filing accusing Michael Schiavo of adultery and not acting in his wife's best interests.

The filing was one of a flurry of 15 motions filed by Bob and Mary Schindler as they now have less than three weeks to find a legal way to keep their severely brain-damaged daughter alive.

Terri Schiavo is scheduled to have the feeding tube that has kept her alive for 15 years removed March 18 unless her parents can convince an appeals court to block Michael Schiavo again. Michael Schiavo says he will have the tube pulled because his wife once told him she would never want to be kept alive artificially.

David Gibbs, the Schindler's attorney, said Pinellas Circuit Court Judge George Greer has indicated he will not hear the divorce request and five other motions filed Monday - but that only means that the matters are now on their way to being appealed to the 2nd District Court of Appeal in Lakeland........

Terri Schiavo's parents ask judge to let her divorce husband

[Mr. Silverback]

He became eligible for a no-fault divorce 3 years after Terri was incapacitated. Why doesn't he file for one?

I suspect you, my wise friend, already know the answer, but I'll throw it out here for public consumption--three reasons in ascending order of importance/likelihood. BTW, in the first few days, he was probably not thinking coolly, and item 3 was the only one in place at that point.

1. Abusive men are first and foremost possessive. Terri, though damaged, was still "his."

2. He may have seen dollar signs. Once it became clear that the doctors weren't detecting her true cause of injury, he probably realized he could pin the brain damage on them and collect a settlement.

3. By far the most important: He stays next-of-kin, he's in charge. If he stays in charge, the medical decisions can be steered so that she never gets to a point where she can say, "Heart attack? No, the last thing I remember is Michael hitting me with a 2 X 4."

And that is why he will say "I love my wife and want to stay married to her," when he has been saying "I'm done with her" loud and clear in real life and the courts for years now.

[Mr. Silverback]

Yes, it is amazing how intelligent and informed YOU are, and how STUPID and ILL-INFORMED the rest of us are!!!!!!

LOL!

[Mr. Silverback]

I fear the day when "you can bet" becomes a sufficient legal basis for a court order.

Um, no...the basis for the court order is the fact that he's no longer acting as her spouse. There is no "you bet" and I really doubt the Schindler's are going to cite Spotted Owl's post as their case logic. No offense, SO, what you said was right, it's just not what the Schindler's argument is, I'm sure.

Jeez, it is amazing how many people lack even the most basic understanding of our judicial system.

It's amazing that you think you understand the legal system. If someone's guardian is not acting in their interest, the relationship is severed. If Terri was an 8 year old and her father was a crack addict, her grandparents could petition for custody. Since Terri is non compis mentis at this time, the principle here is the same.

[Mr. Silverback]

Michael presented evidence. It may have been fabricated, but no one has contradicted it.

What evidence did he present that she would want to be starved to death. Heck, post evidence he presented that she filed a "no heroic measures" living will for that matter. All we have is hearsay from a person--Michael--with a vested financial interest.

But your willingness to scrap the entire legal system to decide the case based upon your hunches is terrifying.

The man is trying to starve someone to death. Do you find that terrifying or do you have a total lack of self-preservation instinct?

[Mr. Silverback]

What, he shoots boxes of Frosted Flakes every night or something?

DIE, TONY THE TIGER, DIE!!! [BLAM!! BLAM!!] BWAHAHAHAHA!! [BLAM!! BLAM!!]

Judge Greer was asked about the tightness of his shot groupings, and he said "They're GREAT!!"

[gopheraj]

Yes, you'd think a normal person would want that.

[Pajamajan]

"What a surprise Greer won't hear it"

Yeh, I'm shocked, shocked that Greer won't hear it. The man seems to have malice toward Terri and her family. He basically said in his last ruling that he doesn't want to hassle with Terri's case and made it March 18 so Terri's family can prepare for Last Rites. He has issued a death sentence on a helpless disabled woman, and he has ordered her to be executed using a method that wouldn't even be allowed for a dog. Would the judge sentence a serial killer or child murderer to be starved and dehydrated to death?

The "judge" issued the death sentence based of the controversial, hearsay testimony of her adulterous husband. My opinion of this is HERE along with links to what I think are pertinent issues (the first one at the top-doesnt work, but the rest do).

Judge Greer's actions against Terri show malice to me. He has repeatedly gone along with Michael Schiavo. The Florida DCF wanted to investigate Michael Shiavo for abuses against Terri. Michael Shiavo goes to court to ask that the DFC be stopped. Michael Schiavo- the person who the allegations of abuse and neglect are against, goes to court and the judge sides with him, stops the investigation of abuse. Unfreakinbeleivable. See post 25 below.

Here is more of judger Greer's handiwork. All you death freaks- scroll down to where it talks about the vomiting, fevers, and diarrhea Terri had to endure the last time your legal representatives tried to murder her. Here are the effects of only 3 days of starvation and dehydration. What a lovely thing to do to woman in a wheel chair .(sarcasm x 10).

Here is a POST 25 with more pertinent points.

Here POST 21 is another brief but brilliant post by a Freeper

And HERE is a list of the violations of Terri's rights.

At this point, the BTK serial killer will be given a trial that is far more fair than Terri can hope to get at the hands of judge Greer and the euthanasia advocates who supposedly represent her through her "guardian" adulterous husband. Felos is behind the law that changed food and water from sustenance to life support. He is a euthanasia activist. Greer is a euthanasia advocate. There are money ties. The Hospice Terri is illegally imprisoned in is the same one where Felos was chairman of the board.

There have been allegations of abuse against Terri's husband, but he is able to stop the investigation. He promised to take care of Terri for the rest of her life, then never gave her another rehabilitative therapy after he received the monetary award to care for her. He didn't remember that she wanted to be killed if she became disabled, until after he received the monetary award. He is living with another woman, has 2 children by her.

He has kept Terri in isolation. He has ordered that no religious pictures be on her walls , she is not allowed outside, she is not allowed visitors, she can't be video taped or photographed. Every single type of intervention, or pleasure that might have the slightest chance of stimulating her brain, he denies, the curtains have been ordered to remained closed. Pictures can't be on the walls, her family has gotten in trouble with Michel for playing a CD of Terri's music on her CD player. He let her teeth rot, denied her dental care , she has contractures which are very painful as they developed because he denied her range of motion exercises to prevent them . He knows what these things are for, he's had training.

His actions are of a man desperately trying to prevent his wife from ever recovering. His actions are also vicious and cruel to a helpless disabled person. Her family has been denied visitation for weeks, Terri has been kept in seclusion in a hospice though she has no terminal illness. She has had to endure infections, such as a Urinary Tract infection without treatment ( they are painful) until a court ordered him to let her be treated with antibiotics.

He stated to the court that he knew not treating the infections could lead to sepsis - a system wide infection- but the fact is, he still tried to deny her treatment until a court ordered him to . This is a loving husband?

Terri's family, her own family, her mother and father , sister and brother, the people who have known Terri all her life, have said that there was trouble in the marriage before Terri's "collapse", there are allegations of abuse. There are suspicious circumstances surrounding her so called "heart attack". Terri was considering divorce from Michael- according to her family. They say she would never have wanted to be starved and dehydrated to death. "Loving" husband Michael took Terri's wedding ring and had it melted down and made into a ring for himself.

Then there is the convenient return of his memory right after he receives his money, that Terri wanted to be killed if she ever became disabled. Her family disputes it. She is Catholic. His evidence - 7 years later- is some TV show that he can't remember. A feeding tube at that point in history was not considered life support or considered an extraordinary measure. No mention is made of what the TV show was about.

Was it about a person in a coma, on a ventilator and "pulling the plug"? We don't know because Michael can't remember what show it was. Terri is not in a coma, and not on a ventilator. It seems that Judge Greer has ordered her execution by a method that can't be used on convicted serial killers or a dog, based on a half remembered conversation MS had with Terri, about a TV show he can't remember.

He (Greer) has refused to hear anything Terri's OWN PARENTS- HER MOM AND DAD, BROTHER AND SISTER , have had to say, about Michael. Such as -Terri might have wanted a divorce from him, before any of this happened , that he was abusive to her on other occasions.

"Judge Greer denied" look at just about any motion the family has made to have MS investigated, or to have proper care for Terri, or to even be able to visit their own daughter on certain occassions, and it will start with that sentence.

Does it matter that Terri may have wanted a divorce from Michael before she became disabled? That he may have been abusive toward her before? Does it matter that he is allowed to continue as her guardian, though he lives with, and has children with, another woman?

I feel like this is happening in the 1970's when, if a man was beating up on his wife and the neighbors called the cops, they'd come to the door and basically tell the wife they couldn't do anything about it, but to quiet dowm. As soon as they left, the husband would start beating up his wife again, but tell her to quiet down.

(I am so fed up with having to post the same thing over and over and over again for ignorant people or maybe just cold hearted people who are too lazy to research what's happening here. It's pretty obvious to me there is something very wrong with this picture. There are so many people who are blind, though they can see.)

Why is food and water now considered life support , when it wasn't at the time of Terri's collapse? Because the law was changed. Who is behind the law being changed? George Felos Michael Schiavo's attorney who is supposedly representing Terri's guardian. How can you be a "guardian" if you're trying to have someone killed?

Greer and the rest are all pro euthanasia, as are Felos and everyone else who is supposed to be "helping" Terri. The conflicts of interest on the part of Felo's Greer and some in the Florida court and legislature are simply staggering. Michael Schiavo and Greer should have been dismissed years ago. Terri should be with her parents. She is on no machines, breathes on her own, has no terminal disease. Her care is simple. Her prospects for rehabilitation, have been shown to be successful when therapy was provided, she responded, and showed improvement. But, she hasn't had therapy in years thanks to adulterous MS's memory of her supposed death wish.

Don't you think we should be absolutely sure that everything is above board before we execute a helpless woman in a wheel chair? If there is any doubt, shouldn't we let Terri live? Let her go home to her parents and let MS go where ever it is her should go? Should we even allow a human being to be cruelly starved and dehydrated when it isn't put in writing, or unless there is no evidence that the person would have wanted otherwise? If there is any doubt at all. We should err on the side of life. Shouldn't the testimony of a person's immediate family count when trying to make this determination? Especially where there are allegations that the husband may have been abusive. And certainly where the husband has moved in and fathered children with another woman.

This case is not about euthnasia- the right to die, so to speak, it's about the right to kill and weather a judge, lawyer, and adulterous husband are going to be granted the "right" to KILL a disabled woman, in spite of numerous conflicts of interest, ties to euthanasia, suspicious circumstances, abuse allegations, lack of any concrete proof of Terri's wishes.

If they succeed in murdering Terri, based on so little proof of her wishes, it is going to set a terrifying precedent.

"They don't see me coming, they never see me coming"
(Al Pacino playing the devil, in the movie "Devil's Advocate".)

[Mr. Silverback]

Or do you want them to lie under oath if she didn't?

Call an ambulance immediately, I think you're having a brain hemorrhage.

[gopheraj]

I believe that they BOTH thought she would be dead way before now.

[Future Useless Eater]

Her friend said it. I read it. If I come across it again, I will let you know.

in Nov 2003, we were discussing Terri's wishes for a divorce. Here are some connect-the-dots info from THAT thread

... Newsweek: Nov. 3 issue — The day before Terri Schiavo’s life descended into a private purgatory in 1990, she indulged in a guilty pleasure: an $80 visit to the hairdresser. When she told her husband, Michael, over the phone, he reacted angrily at the cost and the two traded bitter words, according to Jackie Rhodes, a friend of Schiavo’s.

the Seattle Times:
Jackie Rhodes, who worked and socialized with Terri, says Michael would frequently call his wife at work and leave her in tears. She says she and Terri had each discussed divorcing their husbands and moving in together.
...


Hannity and Colmes
[attorney] Anderson: ...she was so upset about the fight, that she called her best friend from work, a girl that she had discussed, perhaps both of them getting a divorce, and taking an apartment together... She called this girl, Jackie Rhodes, told her about the big fight... She was sufficiently upset that Jackie Rhodes asked her: "Should I come over? Should I come over and spend the night with you so you'll be safe?"

Anderson: And Terri said, "No, I'll either be asleep, or pretend to be asleep when he gets home from work."... and the next thing Jackie heard, was she was in the emergency room.

...more from Newsweek:
Terri confided to her friend Rhodes that her marriage was strained. She complained that Michael was lazy and so controlling that he tracked the mileage on her new Toyota to ensure she didn’t venture too far. A few weeks before her collapse, Terri broke down crying with her brother Bobby. “I wish that I had the guts to divorce Michael,” she told him, according to an affidavit he signed, “because I cannot take being married to him anymore.”

"On the Record with Greta"
Greta: What was her marriage like with her husband?

Bobby: Well it was deteriorating Greta. I mean, we've had ahh, Terri and I had conversations ahh, prior to her collapsing that evening, where she was ahh, coming to me seeking a DIVORCE from Michael.

Bobby: And at the time, I was only in my early twenties, and ah, other than just listening to her, I really didn't offer... you know, have much to offer, as far as how to go about seeking a divorce. Ahh, she was extremely unhappy.


and THIS juicy tidbit regarding LIFE SUPPORT from St.PetersburgTimes:
...they[Terri's parents] and [friend Diane] Meyer said [IN COURT UNDER OATH], [Terri] supported placing her grandmother ON a ventilator and opposed Karen Ann Quinlan's parents, who gained national attention in the 1970s when fighting to REMOVE their daughter from life support.

this from the AP...
[best friend Diane] Meyer told a cruel joke about Quinlan, and it set Schiavo off.

"She went down my throat about this joke, that it was inappropriate," Meyer said. She remembers Schiavo wondering how the doctors and lawyers could possibly know what Quinlan was really feeling or what she would want.

"Where there's life," Meyer recalled her[Terri] saying, "there's hope."

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[TAdams8591]

Well done analysis and agreed. He controls her situation completely including limiting visitors (mostly to family) and no cameras for the same kinds of reasons. The more people who see Teri alert & responding, the more of a chance she won't be euthanized etc. etc.

Michael is a very selfish, unfeeling, coldhearted human being.

[nicmarlo]

Yes, you'd think a normal person would want that.

But Michael's no more normal than was Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Chairman Mao, or Judas.

[Future Useless Eater]

>> Call an ambulance immediately, I think [he's] having a brain hemorrhage.

Better yet, folow Michael Schiavo's example for calling an ambulance 'immediately', for that guy...

In other words, we would call that freeper's next of kin and say "I'm sorry, but your [family member] is dead. Then we would sit down on the couch and read a magazine.

[TAdams8591]

There is no arguing your analyisis of Michael's motivations. Possibly he is also trying to protect himself against incrimination if he did attempt to kill Terri. Even though the Statute of Limitations may have run out, he doesn't want to be exposed. Also, some of this may be about revenge and certainly it's about POWER and CONTROL.

[nicmarlo]

The more people who see Teri alert & responding, the more of a chance she won't be euthanized etc. etc. Michael is a very selfish, unfeeling, coldhearted human being.

Absolutely true. He didn't Larry King in there either; you know King had asked, during an interview, to go in and tape her. Michael said no. He'd only have access to tapes already filmed. He's an absolutely ugly, disgusting, p.o.s.

[Mr. Silverback]

My hang up is people who have no more connection to this case than reading media reports claiming the right to decide what did and did not happen.

Where did anyone in this thread claim the right to decide what happens in this case? Cite a specific post number. And think twice before you do: saying she should be divorced is wholly different from claiming a right to anything.

Maybe Terri did tell Michael she didn't want to be kept alive. Maybe she doesn't want your "help." You'll never know.

Here's one thing we do know: Dehydration and starvation are horrible, horrible ways to die.

Somehow, I don't think that hearsay evidence should ever be a substitute for a living will, but in a case where accepting Schiavo's word means his wife dies a horrible death, I'd say hearsay evidence is not only inadequate, but truly laughable.

BTW, when one of your heirs says "Old Uncle lugsoul told me had rather die of thirst" do you want us to take his word for it, or actually rewuire evidence of your wishes? Would't a demand for such evidence be a "hunch?"

[Mr. Silverback]

In other words, we would call that freeper's next of kin and say "I'm sorry, but your [family member] is dead. Then we would sit down on the couch and read a magazine.

Well, it has the advantage that no one can accuse you of panicking.

[Future Useless Eater]

i>> But Michael's no more normal than was Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Chairman Mao, or Judas.

ElkGroveDan had these GREAT comparisons the other day...

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[TAdams8591]

Yes, I remember for "privacy reasons" he wouldn't let Larry King's cameramen in her room. How thoughtful of him.

And the issue he makes of those of us who distribute the video of her responding (like FL-engineer) that we are insensitive exploiters. Well, if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black.

[Mr. Silverback]

You're so cute the way you say "cereal" killer.

A friend of mine won a comic book contest in high school by designing a satire on the Ninja Turtles about cereal boxes that came alive after exposure to radiation. The title: Cereal Killers.