Posted on 01/26/2005 11:30:18 PM PST by Kitten Festival
The second half of Russia’s second revolution has begun.
It started in mid-January, when in cities throughout the country tens of thousands of mostly-older citizens took to the streets for days on end to protest President Vladimir Putin’s welfare reform plan. Already hope is starting to rise, both inside the country and beyond, that “people power” will bring to Russia the kind of real democracy it is bringing right now to the neighboring countries of Ukraine and Georgia. But Russia is – well, Russia – which means that this revolution will go on longer, spill more blood, and could end less happily than the revolutions nearby. Which leads to one big question that the Bush Administration will need to answer sooner rather than later: whose side are we on?
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
One of the many reasons Dr. Rice is the most qualified individual to become Secretary of State at this point in history.
Discounted in the "world wide poll of nations that despise our President", was that Russia was divided. I took this as a good sign. The people of Russia need to be encouraged to defy Putin, as those in Ukraine did. Certainly it is more dangerous but compared to a return of Soviet rule there is no alternative if they desire freedom.
WhenPutin waltzed into power, so many people thought he would extend what Yeltsin had started. Some of us knew better than that. He's a lifetime Communist and leopards don't change their spots. I'm afraid it's going to be a tough road for many years unless the people that have had a little taste of freedom decide they want more and are willing to stand up for the right to enjoy these freedoms. Putin is a pure power broker and will fight to the end, but the masses can still turn this around.
Let's hope.
I agree
Well, do yourself a flavor and type "Georgia" into FR search and read the 4 articles I posted last week just on that subject.
Oh and Putin was elected in free election (overseen by the OSCE) with over a 70% margin. A bunch of old geezers (the main stream of the Communist party...the MSM's "defenders of freedom") are not going to start a revolution. When incomes are growing in real terms at a rate of 7%+ per year, unemployment is one of the loyest in Europe and progress is on the way all over, people don't start revolutions, no matter how much the Western MSM "intelligencia" Elites might wish for it. What they are wishing for is the good ole Yeltsin times where they could rob the Russian economy blind and when Parliment protested they had their puppet Yeltsin bomb it and kill 200 parlimentarians and staff. Yup, now that was Democracy...Albright told us so.
Soul Seeker, Dr. Rice is going to bring back Socialisim?
What is this a Communist web site?
jb6, these people are so anti-Russian for any reason it is a reflex - they back WELFARE STATE PROTESTORS over Putin's efforts at welfare reduction and reform.
We must living in the end time where every cop is a criminal and all the sinners, saints.
You people are blinded, Cold War left over delusionals.
What had Yeltsin started? He gave away all the industry to a dozen oligarches, bankrupted the nation. Allowed governors to become defacto kings. Collapsed the economy in 98 using pyromid schemes and in '93 butchered 200+ parlimentarians and their staffs when they refused his give away schemes to the "Family" and Clinton's picked financial people.
Yeah, you might have been hoping that Russia fell fully apart, following the Yeltsin policy, but the Russians decided otherwise. As for Waltzing, well I guess when you get over 70% of the vote in OSCE observed elections, you can waltze.
| Propaganda | Truth |
|---|---|
| Putin is a communist | Putin has implemented a flat tax of 13%, got rid of the Sales tax, set the corporate tax at 24%, cut the VAT in half, cut 1/3rd off the payroll tax. He has cut back on government size (shrinking government). He has put up 20% of Russian land for sale, the government is in the process of divesting of the remainder of its shares in various companies. There has been judicial reform to a sitting jury from a triumvirate of judges. There has also been a total reform of the banking center, in order to make it transparent. |
| Russia and China are allied to destroy the US | Russia has recently passed up China for an oil export route and choose instead Japan. China had to turn to Iran. Russia is rearming in Siberia, while she arms India with over 400 new tanks, a wing of new aircraft, two nuclear submarines and an aircraft carrier to intercept Chinese shipping. Russia has armed S.Korea with T-90s, armed Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam and Kazakhstan. Russia has attempted (by itself and through the US) to arm Taiwan also. The majority of weapons sold to China are aimed at the US navy, to which China will not be able to catch up for at least another generation. |
| Russia trains with China to destroy the US/West | This year alone, Russia has had joint maneuvers with Japan & S.Korea and then again with the US and UK off the Chinese Coast. |
| There is a Putin pandering mafia after me. | There is a dedicated group of Freepers who are out to expose this propagandist's lies and distortions, for which he has already been banned twice. |
| If you are against me you must be a (take your choice) A. communist, B. Putin lover, C. Russian Orthodox, D. Russian, E. Delusional, F. All of the Above | G. None of the Above. You must be a lover of truth and a hater of yellow journalism, empty conspiracy theories and plain propaganda. |
| The FSB/Russians are behind all the terrorism, including the theater and Beslan. | Only someone blind or shilling for Islam would on a continuous basis shift blame away from the terrorists and onto the victims. |
| Russia is giving Iran nukes. | Wrong. Russia is providing a civilian nuclear reactor with a contract to return spent rods. Do most of us agree with this? No, we are against this. Is this nuclear weapons technology? No. Our allie Pakistan with the assistance of our Most Valued Trading partner China are giving Iran missile and bomb technology. |
| Russia, and Putin in particular, hate Israel and wish to destroy it. | Wrong. Russia is Israel's second closest allie and trading partner and provides Israel with most of its oil and sells it weapons technology. |
| Putin is an Atheist, a hater of Christ. | Putin was baptized as a child, a regular church goer and has proven his faith on numerous occasions. |
| Russia supports Islamic terrorism. | Wrong. The Soviet Union supported socialist Arab revolutionaries/terrorists like the Palestinian People's Liberation Front. Modern day Russia does not support these groups. Our allie Saudi Arabia is the number one backer of all major Islamic groups. |
| Putin is a dictator | Putin was popularly elected with over 70% of the vote, a mandate. He functions within a constitution. True Parliament is dominated by pro-Putin right wing parties, also elected freely. The various right parties received over 83% of the vote. |
| Putin hates Bush. | Putin has been Bush's loudest cheerleader, louder and in front of Sharon, Blair or Berlusconi |
| Putin is moving to grab power through selecting governors. | The governors still have to pass the local Oblast's Parliament's review (that's province). Further, England, Italy and France all have the same systems. |
| Robert W. Lee another TapTheSource writers are credible. | Hardly, most like Mr. Lee, belong to the John Birch society, an organization steeped in conspiracy theories. |
| Yeltsin's declaration of open borders is a hollow one for Soviet citizens, who still cannot leave their country. Even travel outside the Soviet Union is heavily restricted, regardless of the Soviet republic | Typical propaganda leveled by TapTheSource or his articles. Anyone without a criminal warrant can leave at will, so long as the receiving nation will issue a Visa. |
| The Secret Soviets are still in charge and everything is part of their plan. | Lets take this lunacy to its full extent: The Soviets in their diabolic mysterious master plan allowed the Warsaw pact to collapse, the countries to open up and half of them to join NATO (I guess to corrupt NATO from within, regardless that it is those new NATO members that support America now and most of old NATO that is against America, lets ignore that fact). They allowed the Soviet Union itself to fall apart, some of which is also now part of NATO. They allowed the military to degrade, trade secrets to be sold or stolen, Chinese immigrants to come in mass into southern Siberia. Most of their bases to shut down. The economy to dive and only grow again under Capitalism freer then America's. They further allowed the young to not even know who Lenin was, for Islamics (who are all pawns of the Soviets, you see) to attack Russia on a daily basis. All this so that once America was the only apparent supper power, had its military in 120+ nations they could do what? Spring their surprise offensive? Materialize the great invasion army from outer space or outer Mongolia? Or marry enough American men to convert them (think body snatchers) into 5th Columnists and take over the US from inside? (of course that more people then ever voted Republican is also part of their master and evil plan). As a matter of fact, everything that happens that makes this theory look ludicrous for the past 15 years, well that's just part of the brilliance of their master plan. Oh and did we mention that they were obviously able to make Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, Bush Jr. into a bunch of idiots who could not see into their plan. So either this is all BS, or every American expert in the government and politician is an idiot and we as a nation are a bunch of idiots (except for the members of the John Birth Society, the only masters of the illuminate able to see this grand Jewish .. erg .. Russian conspiracy. |
| Russia is a dirt poor country. | Russia ranks, according to the CIA World FactBook GDP: purchasing power parity - $1.282 trillion (2003 est.), which places it just behind (now ahead) of Italy, the world's 7th largest economy. |
| Anna Politkovskaya is a reputable Russian journalist who is fighting Putin's facism. | Hardly. Anna Politkovskaya is an opportunist and a leftist. Having become a "political" refugee in the early 1990s, she now has FRENCH citizenship, writes for the socialist La Monde and the socialist Novaye Gazeta. She has staged several of her own "assassination" attempts to better her street credits while meeting constantly with Chechin and Al Quida terrorists and writing gushing love stories of them. Further, anyone who thinks that just because she hates Putin she is pro Bush, you couldn't be more wrong. She is in league with the devil incarnate, Soros, and hates Bush as much. A leftist is a leftist, but judge for yourself and read her views of Bush and the CONSERVATIVES of AMERICA. COWBOY FRIENDS (Praise for Moore) |
| Russia is a nation that only relies on oil. | A total lie, mostly spread by Wahhabi islamic Saudi Arabia and various NeoCons who favor US investment to Facist (and pro-Islamic) China. Read here about the state of the Russian economy that is now returning as a major industrial and IT power. Russia competes directly with India on IT and has had manufacturing climbing at an incredible rate. Financ e Ministry to work on debt payment schedule |
| Ion Mihai Pacepa is a credible source. | Ion Mihai Pacepa was a 2-Star General in the Romanian KGB. The man made a career of upholding the second worst dictatorship Cecescu, in the Warsaw Pact, second only to Stalin's SU. He spent some 30 years building this murderer's power base. Obviously Pacepa was smart enough to read the writing on the way and see the end coming. He "defected" and now makes money writing books and articles. He never stood trial for his evil crimes, after the Romanian Revolution, even as his former master was executed. |
| The dramatic rise of oil prices, in April-September 2002, gave Kremlin new chances for survival. | Only if one ignores the 6-7% growth rates of 200 & 2001 and the tripling of revenues from the 13% flat tax in 2001. |
| Russia greatly expanded military supplies to China; in January-August 2002, the two countries concluded weapons supply contracts | Moscow is in the business of selling weapons, second largest after America. Thus, when China, rich with American cash from the giant trade deficit, ordered weapons from Russia, Israel and France. Russia did not give away "supplies" but sold weapons systems. They also sold weapons systems to India, Indonesia, South Korea, Kazakhstan, Greece, Cyprus, Malaysia, Thailand and a host of other nations. |
| During August and the first half of September, Russia\x{2019}s Defense Ministry and Foreign Ministry made a series of tough anti-Georgian statements, using as a pretext "the presence of Chechen terrorists in the Pankisi Gorge" (a small valley in Georgia bordering Russia). In the beginning of September, Russian bombers made a strike in Georgian territory. | The Pankisi Gorge is an area about half the size of W.Virgina, covered in some of the highest mountains and some of the deepest valleys of the world. Mostly unpopulated and forested, it is used as a training base for Islamics. Recently those none existent islamics perpetrated Beslan and Baseyov himself stated or boasted that he is allied to President Sakaashvili, president of Georgia and a Soros puppet. The strikes were made at early dawn by SU-25s, an impossability for Russia, since to reach it, it's closest SU-25s would have to have taken off and flow at night. Being a second rate SU, after the SU-33s, it is a day light capable only fighter/bomber. Georgia, on the other hand, has built several SU-25s with Israeli assistance that have state of the art night capabilities. Furthermore, no hard proof of the bombing was ever presented by the Georgian government, only recycled photos from 5 years prior. |
| And on Sept. 11, Putin himself threatened Georgia with a heavy military strike if the Georgian government didn\x{2019}t meet Russia\x{2019}s demands. Again, Washington protested, again with no results. | This was in response to a demand that Georgia stop granting visas, protection and support to Chechins, Arabs and other Islamics in the Pankisi Gorge and was limited to Russia stepping into that territory itself. This, after Georgia's only and now formally independent TV Station reported the presence of the terrorists, embarressing then President Shevernadze. |
You know, I don't know how my name got on the "retired" people's list, but I've been getting swamped by the Save Social Security lobbies. What's funny is that I'm over 3 decades from retirement. Anyways, I can tell you this, those people and their supporters don't give a single damn about the future generation they will bankrupt, not a bit. Their literature is "all about meeeee and screw youuuuu youngsters".
You're absolutely right and 200+ parlimentarians and staff paid with their lives in '93 when Yeltsin bombed parliment. All the while Clinton and Albright were calling him the greatest Russian democrat and freedom lover. Ahh the good ole days.
bump
An interesting and perhaps perceptive comment. Every scenario should call for fresh analysis. There is not much from the "Democracy uber alles," groupees. This all just illustrates Washington's wisdom, which called not only for avoiding entangling alliances, but also permanent enmity or favoritism towards particular nations.
Putin is an interesting fellow. We all know his past. But here he has stirred antagonistic demonstrations not from people closer to mainstream American Conservatives, but far closer to an amalgem of Ted Kennedy, Jesse Jackson and the AARP. It really is very, very strange to see a group at Free Republic cheering them on!
William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site
The degree to which Russia is a friend and ally to GWB can be directly measured by Clinton and the American Left's reaction to Putin. I seem to recall Clinton and many other Democrats really crying when the Yukos offices were raided many months ago... when these clowns complain, it means Putin must be on the right track!
Well we had to shoot a lot of people for independance from britain. One day you will wake up and see the dictator that putin really is. Meanwhile you can continue to live in your dream world where Putin is like some kind of archangel.
Lets see putin selling missiles to syria, the whole iran nuclear reactior thing. russia selling weapons to china. (sarcasm on)year russia is our best friend! (sarcasm off)
You call Putin a Communist - yet he is trying to end the welfare state - causing old penchioners to demonstrate - happens in the USA all the time (AARP anyone?).
Your side claims Putin is a dictator, yet instead of smacking down these seniors like a blood thirsty tyrant, Putin did what every democratic politician would have done (including in America) caved in to old people over their Social Security benefits.
I repeat you types are delusional.
I repeat Lets see putin selling missiles to syria, the whole iran nuclear reactior thing. russia selling weapons to china. (sarcasm on)year russia is our best friend! (sarcasm off)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.