Chetniks rehabilitated

Interesting how these WWII conflicts still resonate in the Balkans today.

The Chetniks were the original resistance to the Nazis in Yugoslavia. Although WWII Balkans alliances shifted & re-shifted, it is a misleading simplification to call Chetniks "collaborationists." Mihailovic's words at his 1946 "trial" in Belgrade: "I wanted much, I began much, but the gale of the world swept away me and my work." Pretty eloquent for a guy hauled in front of a communist show-trial with a sure firing squad at the end.

ping.

Saw this & thought of you guys; about a year ago you had me reading up on this subject.

Historical ping.

“Glorifying Fascist movements is intolerable,” said the party in a statement.

Gross mischaracterization of the Chetniks. At the time, it seemed that either the Nazis or the Stalinists would take over Yugoslavia. The Royalists (chetniks) fought against both. The Stalinists (Tito) won in the end, so everyone who fought the Stalinists got branded as pro-Fascist. The Chetniks were the only good guys in the Balkans.

Draza Mihailovic was a Mason and Allied flyers shot down over the Balkans were advised to seek him out as the Chetniks would lead them to safety.

The opposition to this legislation is, of course, sufficient justification for summary execution of the arch traitor Slobodan Milosevic and all of his running dog lackeys in the Socialist Party of Serbia.

The Chetniks were favored by the United States in WWII, but Tito murdered as many of them as he could find.

They gave the Germans hell during the occupation.

"the anti-fascist values of modern Europe." Thst's one way to put it. How about "the absence of any values in post-modern Europe."

You have to laugh at the indignation on the part of Croatian parliamentarians.

Isn't this the same country that-until relatively recently-was lead by a man-Franjo Tudjman-that essentially encapsulated the very meaning of the word "fascist?"

Thanks, Mark. The vote, by the way, was overwhelming, with only a handful of non-Socialists abstaining. The opposition to the law was from the Socialist/Communist block and a small Social Democratic Party of Serbia -- totaling some 24 votes, against 171 in favor.

This is indeed a moral victory more than a financial one. For Coratia to imply that the Chetniks were a Fascist organization is a blatant revision of history. The Croats were the Fascists, de jure and de facto. Their state was allied with Germany and Italy by formal treaties, and the Independent State of Croatia (1941-1945) declared war on the US and its allies, and have never signed a document ending that hostile act (to the best of my knowledge).

The US supported the Chetnkis until 1943. At Yalta, Churchill and Stalin managed to convince President Roosevelt, whose VP was a Communist [in fact Mr. Wallace ran for US president on a pro-Stalinist ticket in 1947], to side with Tito's Partizans). After Yalta, most military supplies went to the communist-backed Parizans and Chetniks were getting cans of food and blankets.

As a result of that, many Chetnik units were caught between Partizans and Germans and were forced to negotiate and wiggle to survive. Some abuses of open collaboration were documented for Chetnicks as well as for Partizans, none other than by Kocha Popovich, one of the highest officials in Tito's communist lineup in his memoirs. However, collaboration with the Germans was not a matter of policy of either guerrilla movement.

The U.S. awarded posthumously Gen. Drazha Mihailovich a Legion of Merit. His Chetniks have saved hundreds of downed American pilots flying their bombing runs to Bucharest. There is a whole organization of veteran American pilots dedicated to this man.

The Chetniks represented the Royal Army in Homeland. Mihailovich was officially the Defense Minister. They represneted the the exiled Royal Government in London, which refused to acknowledged German occupation. Yugoslavia was a western ally and its government and people never sided with Nazis. The collaborationist groups known as Lyotichevtsi (Ljoticevci) were fascist sympathizers. Gen. Nedich was a collaborationist general who tried top save as many people from German wrath as possible, but he did collaborate with Germans -- a la Vichy France -- and was executed for that after the war. He had nothing officially to do with the Chetniks.

No they didn´t.

Nope.

Shall we discuss the actual history of the various Chetnik groupings, from Pecanac to Mihajlovic, to Djurisic, to Djujic and the influence of Dmitrije Ljotic?

Pardon?

For one, it's Mihailovich (Mihailovic) not Mihajlovic. But suit yourself. You can bring out whatever you wish about all of them -- the fact remains they were not fascists, nor did the official Yugoslav government policy support any collaboration with Nazi Germany or Fascist Italy.

Let's not forget that the West supported Stalin in the struggle against Germany, Italy and Japan. That did not make the West pro-Stalinist. Necessities notwithstanding, there is an essential difference between a fascist regime in Croatia that was an active ally of Germany and Italy (and as such declared war on the U.S. and its allies), and the various Chetnik leaders who for whatever reason collaborated with whoever was profitable at the time, choosing the lesser of two evils.

For some reason Tropoljac comes to mind...I am not sure why.

I am Tropoljac.

BTW, can you name any instances in which Chetniks from Dalmatia, Lika, Kordun, Western Bosnia, or Hercegovina ever fought against the Axis?

Here´s a hint: they never did, but they certainly did collaborate with them.

...can you name any instances in which Chetniks from Dalmatia, Lika, Kordun, Western Bosnia, or Hercegovina ever fought against the Axis

The Chetnik movement was initiated in response to German occupation of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia from the remnants of the Yugoslav Royal Army, with Col. Dragolyub (Drazha) Mihailovich as its head.

The Chetniks were made up mostly of Serbs, for a couple of reasons: (1) many of them were Serb nationalists disillusioned or always opposed to any union with Croats and Slovenes and (2) the other nationalities either welcomed the Nazis with open arms and flowers (i.e. Croatians, Muslims, Kosovo Albanians), or grudgingly accepted reality (Slovenes).

For the first seven months of occupation, the Chetnik units resisted Germans and Italians and established "liberated" territories where the occupiers did not have any or much control (usually countryside). The Chetniks were joined by the communists after Germany invaded the Soviet Union. Until that time the communists "co-existed" with the Nazis and Fascists.

The split between the Chetniks and communists occurred primarily over the strategy of resistance: the communists insisted on killing as many Germans and causing German retaliations on civilian population (the "100:1" rule), thereby supplying ready recruits for the guerrilla forces, while Chetniks insisted on resisting the occupiers when necessary and waiting for the allies (as was the case with all other resistance movements in Europe), and sparing the population.

That being said, it is a fact, undeniable fact, the policy and the aim of both resistance movements to resist the occupation and to rid the country of them sooner or later. As I said, tactical cooperation of the west with Stalin is not "collaboration." The aim of the west was never to adopt or condone communism. It "co-operated" with the Soviets to fight a common enemy.

Drawing a parallel between the Croatian regime of Ante Pavelic, which was an active ally and an ideological progeny of fascist Italy and Germany's love child, with tactical realities on the ground for many Chetnik commanders is not the same.

Now, I know that you will show me the details because I know that this is something you know very well, but I am going to stick to the "big picture" which undeniably shows that the aim of the Chetnik and communist resistance was ideologically and militarily contrary to the aims of the fascist Croatian regime. The fact remains that the only true Nazi partners in Yugoslavia were the Croatians and Muslims.

Good to have you back, Trop.

Okay, fair enough, but you are downplaying the role of Nedic and company. Yes, I know that they are not the same as the Ravnogorci. Also, the political programme drawn up by Dragisa Vasic during the war certainly was a fascist one.

...but you are downplaying the role of Nedic and company. Yes, I know that they are not the same as the Ravnogorci. Also, the political programme drawn up by Dragisa Vasic during the war certainly was a fascist one

I wouldn't say I am downplaying the role of Nedich & Co. and how Mihailovich's survival involved using Nedich. It is well documented that some Mihailovich's units were authorized by Mihailovich to join Nedich's formations (at the same time they were under orders to continue shadow activities). All this goes back to the "realities on the ground," tactical and pragmatic chess game.

The differences between the communists, Mihailovich and Nedich as well as Lyotich were in their approach to the short-term goal of dealing with the reality of occupation and long-term goals. This is where Dragisha Vasich also comes in.

The communists played their tactical chess game from April until July, in a relative peace with the German Nazi and fascist Italian occupiers and Croatian Ustasha regime. Then between July and November (1941) they played a tactical game alongside the Chetniks, but their primary goal was not fighting the Germans and Italians (they really couldn't do that even if they wanted to), but a communist revolution and bringing Yugoslavia into the realm of the Soviet-dominated and orchestrated Internationale, by toppling the royalist Serbian-dominated regime which they considered "reactionary".

The communists used the foreign occupiers as a suitable recruitment motivator, making use of the German 100:1 rule of retaliation against each German soldier killed. Thus, Germans were a suitable medium through which the communist-led "People's Front,", a smokescreen amalgam of various groups -- received steady supply of recruits, with the express aim of fighting the Chetniks, not the Germans. The communists knew the Germans won't stay; their more immediate concern was defeating the regime on the ground while the country was under occupation and thus preventing the King from returning.

In order to achieve this goal, the communists on occasion sided with just about everyone, including Kosovo Albanians (promising them Kosovo after the war), as well as Germans.

The Chetniks were largely unorganized groups of soldiers, predominately Serbian, who refused to surrender and who were organized into a "movement" under the auspices of the Royal Yugoslav Army in Fatherland, better know as the Ravan Gora Movement, with the express aim of resisting the occupiers and waiting for the allies to mount an organized counterattack.

The Chetniks became big-time losers in their struggle after Yalta, forced to tactically co-exist with occupation forces while actively supporting the allied cause and rescuing allied fliers. It is noteworthy that the Germans were offering huge amounts of gold for Mihailovich, much higher than the warrants for Tito.

Nedich and Lyotich were "pragmatists" of the Djindjich type. They believed that any resistance of the people in Serbia and Bosnia would not positively affect the outcome of the war (they were wrong, of course, because the German invasion of Russia is said to have been delayed because of the Serb revolt).

With such attitude, they accepted the occupation as a "reality" and aimed at minimizing civilian causalities and suffering. In many instances they achieved just that (which was diametrically disruptive for the communists, and therefore the cause of the communist ire after WWII). One could argue that Nedich, and even Lyotich (even though he was a right wing, fascistoid nationalist -- not uncommon in Europe of the day), that they engaged in co-operation with the foreign occupiers as a lesser evil, and not because they wanted Serbia to join the Axis.

As far as Vasich is concerned, if my memory serves me well, he was not even a royalist. His influence on Mihailovich was considerable for most of the war, but even if his views can be characterized as fascist, Mihailovich's movement (supposedly the name "Ravnogorski pokret" was Vasich's idea) never advocated joining the Axis.

So, again the "big picture" shows a fundamental difference between the various right-wing and left-wing groups operating under various philosophies, but all united in their resistance (passive or active) to occupation. None of them advocated declaring war on America, as far as I know.

This was not the case with the Croatian regime, which declared war against the US as part of the Axis solidarity, and various Muslim groups in Yugoslavia, who actively joined the Axis alliance and provided troops for the Nazi cause in attacking Soviet Russia.

Speaking of resisting Germans, most of the famous Seven so-called "Offensives" of the Partizans were more like "bezhaniye" -- running for their lives. No partizan force could effectively engage the Germans and hope to win. The best they could hope for was to -- escape.

Real battles of Partizans with Germans, resulting in German retreat, did not take place until the Red Army entered Yugoslvia in 1944. Even then their offensives were slaughterhouses used for political purposes, often lacking any clear military advantage -- such as the (in)famous Sremski Front.