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1 posted on 12/17/2004 9:42:37 AM PST by bondserv
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To: Elsie; AndrewC; jennyp; lockeliberty; RadioAstronomer; LiteKeeper; Fester Chugabrew; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 12/17/2004 9:43:43 AM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical! † [Check out my profile page])
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To: bondserv

Back in Europe's Dark Age (while under siege from Vkiking Raids), several Islamic scholars were noted for the transmission and interpretation of Aristotle's work.


3 posted on 12/17/2004 9:45:57 AM PST by RegT
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To: bondserv

Al gebra (the stones) was the basis of much of our higher mathematics, and the concept of "zero" came down to us through Arabic scholars. This period of learned erudition probably occurred BEFORE the Islam revolution that drove out Zoroastrianism from the Middle East.

Time to restore Ahura Mazda as the monotheistic diety of the region. MUCH more compatible with the Judaic tradition.


4 posted on 12/17/2004 9:49:09 AM PST by alloysteel ("Master of the painfully obvious.....")
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To: bondserv

It's true that some of the basic Aristotelian texts came into the West via Islamic editions. Most important, that's how some of the major Aristotelian texts reached Thomas Aquinas, who brought Aristotle back into the mainstream of western philosophy and theology.

On the other hand, if not for the Muslim invasions of North Africa and the Middle East, it's likely enough that this knowledge would have reached the West via other channels. Islam itself invented little or nothing. It destroyed several very ancient civilizations, including Egypt and Mesopatamia, which at the time was Persia. A little of the ancient knowledge came dribbling through. I don't know whether the Arabs should be praised for that, or blamed for destroying a great deal of other knowledge that might otherwise have survived.

In any case, the advancement of science and technology was a uniquely Christian achievement. There were deep scientific thinkers in China, Greece, and the ancient world, but they did very little with that knowledge. It was the Middle Ages (see Lynn Thorndike's histories of science) and the Renaissance that transformed thinking about science. This rested on at least two basic Christian principles that are not found elsewhere:

1) The Logos. The universe has a basic rationality built into it because it was created by and through the Logos, God's Word, the Second Person of the Trinity.

2) Free will. We are free to discover, invent, and change our lives.

Neither of these principles can be found in Islam, which stresses that Allah is totally arbitrary and that he governs the universe without extending any freedom of choice to men.


8 posted on 12/17/2004 9:54:24 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: bondserv

Thats what I like about religion...Its unites people so well.


12 posted on 12/17/2004 9:56:57 AM PST by squirt-gun
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To: bondserv

Same old story. They take stuff over than claim they built it, invented it or conceived it.


14 posted on 12/17/2004 9:59:24 AM PST by Conservative Canuck (The Voice of One Crying in the Wilderness)
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To: bondserv

Most of Islamic science was destroyed by the Mongol invasion. The economic destruction was widespread at the same time, comparable to that of the South during the Civil War or that wrought by WWII. Additionally, Islamic society turned more conservative and fundamentalist as a response to the Mongols. (Sort of a "God is punishing us so lets get conservative" view.) Currently, Islamic philosophy is mostly fundamentalist conservative and very anti-science, particularly anti-evolutionary theory.


17 posted on 12/17/2004 10:03:58 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: bondserv
Sezgin (professor emeritus on the history of science at the University of Frankfurt) is given very positive press. His mission is to help Westerners realize that “the Arab world was the guardian of the ancient Greeks’ scientific knowledge during the Middle Ages, before the European Renaissance rediscovered and extended it.” He has opened a museum in Germany with 800 machines built from descriptions in medieval Arab texts.

I will give neither the early muslims nor the modern ones any credit whatsoever.
As this introductory paragraph summarizes perfectly, I will give the golden age of islam credit as superb librarians. That's it.

Note, however that the knowledge conveyed is Greek, or Oriental, or the fruits of other conquered empires.

There is no uniquely arab or muslim contribution of any kind whatsoever. Completely devoid of original thought.

As for the modern muslims?
I won't even recognize them as human!

20 posted on 12/17/2004 10:14:24 AM PST by Publius6961 (The most abundant things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.)
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To: bondserv
"Islam is", Khataw preaches, "a peaceful religion that is focused on charity and goodwill toward others."

~ and ~

"Not to mention that Islam came to save humanity from ignorance and oppression. Islam is not a threat to any society. Islam calls for harmony and peaceful co-existence with other religions. It does not permit aggression, violence, injustice, or oppression. At the same time, it calls to morality, justice, tolerance, and peace."

Ummmm, no; no it's not. I won't go into *what it is*, as I'd probably get in trouble... aw, what the heck:

Islam, The Cult of Murder™.

Islam, The Cult of Terror™.

Islam, The Cult of Boy-Buggering™.

Islam, The Cult of Women-Chattelling™.

Islam, The Cult of Horror™.

Islam, The Cult of Rape™.

Islam, The Cult of Ritual Killing™.

Islam, The Cult of Beheading™.

Islam, The Cult of Deviants™.

Islam, The Cult of Hate™.

Islam, The Cult of Lies™.

Islam, The Cult of Female Mutilation™.

Islam, The Cult of Death™.

Islam, The Cult of Christian & Jew Killing™.

Islam, The Cult of Infidel Murder™.

Islam, The Cult of The Mentally-Ill™.

Islam, the Cult of Evil™.

Islam, the Cult of Poverty™.

Islam, the Cult of Illiteracy™.

Islam, the Religion of Peace™, and THEY'LL KILL YOU TO PROVE IT!

25 posted on 12/17/2004 10:20:18 AM PST by 7.62 x 51mm (• veni • vidi • vino • visa • "I came, I saw, I drank wine, I shopped")
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To: bondserv

The Islamic world acted as the west's library during the dark ages yet did alomst nothing with that knowledge themselves.


26 posted on 12/17/2004 10:21:44 AM PST by JCBurton
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To: bondserv

SURE it does!

The science of making explosives---and detonating them.


31 posted on 12/17/2004 10:31:46 AM PST by fastattacksailor (On the 8th day, G-D created the ZOT--and was well pleased!)
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To: bondserv
In the fifteenth century, the Islamic world shrank under military pressure from western Europe – the last Muslim forces were forced out of Spain in 1492, the year Christopher Columbus reached America. By this time, the European Renaissance was under way and Islamic knowledge was sucked up by powers on the rise, such as Spain and France.

This guy has quite a different view of the Islamic world than I do. What of the final conquest of Constantinople during the same time period. Much of Greek science came from them, not the Arabs. In fact, what Greek science the Arabs got, they got from the conquest of the Roman (Byzantine) empire over the centuries.

34 posted on 12/17/2004 10:37:46 AM PST by NathanR (Santiago!)
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To: bondserv
Islam conquered the dirt own by three of the greatest civilization of the ancient world. Hellenistic Greece/Eastern Roman Empire, Perisa and Egypt. They also conquered much of ancient India, another of the worlds great civilizations. The only great civilization that escaped Islamic conquest was China. Now having the benefit of almost the entire learning of the ancient world for many centuries, what did Islam contribute? NOTHING! Not a damn thing. Now what would those civilizations have contributed were they not slaughtered by Islam? We will never know but it sure would be a hell of alot more then NOTHING.
37 posted on 12/17/2004 10:58:58 AM PST by jpsb
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To: bondserv

Arabic for some of it, but Persian for some of the best.


39 posted on 12/17/2004 11:03:01 AM PST by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: bondserv
“the Arab world was the guardian of the ancient Greeks’ scientific knowledge during the Middle Ages, before the European Renaissance rediscovered and extended it.”

To some extent, but it's been exaggerated.

More credit goes to the Byzantines. And some must go to the Church, which saved much of the Latin heritage of the Greco-Roman world.

44 posted on 12/17/2004 11:21:44 AM PST by The Iguana
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To: bondserv

bump...for later reading...


46 posted on 12/17/2004 12:03:45 PM PST by VOA
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To: bondserv
Imagine schools of the future slighting or ignoring Newton or Galileo, but paying homage to Avicenna and Muhammed as the fathers of science. Imagine Christianity and Judaism being ignored or condemned as anti-intellectual. Visualize the educational laws of the future forbidding the teaching of both atheistic Darwinism and Christian (European/American) science in the science class, but extolling the work of Arab scholars. Imagine them recounting for students selective horrors committed by Europe and Israel in their conflicts with Muslims, but sweeping under the rug centuries of atrocities committed with the sword of Allah. Would this be an improvement on the current tyranny of naturalistic science in the schools? Is this the kind of new politically-correct philosophy of science that Nature will promote after the fall of the current idol, Charles Darwin? Will Sagan, the popularizer of atheistic science, be eclipsed by Sezgin, the popularizer of Islamic science? Just when you thought things couldn’t get any worse, you find the devil is clever.

Nobody, but nobody, beats David Coppedge for insane creationist conspiracy theories.

Yep, Nature ran a politically correct review of medieval Muslim contributions to science because they know that Darwinism has crumbled, and they're searching for a new evil dogma to push.

David, I say you should run with this concern. Run with it like your life depended on it! Dig up every example of modern mainstream science saying anything complimentary about Muslims in any context, and show the world how this is just another part of Satan's plot to transfer our alliegiance from the evil Charles Darwin (now that you've triumphantly vanquished him) to the evil Muhammed.

47 posted on 12/17/2004 12:20:47 PM PST by jennyp (Latest creation/evolution news: http://crevo.bestmessageboard.com)
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To: bondserv
The history of science is a complex subject involving centuries of political and ideological trends, thousands of players, and multitudes of documents, but two things are clear: true modern science was born in countries that had a Christian world view, and the greatest scientists of the scientific revolution came from a Christian background. Without slighting the contributions of the Greeks and Arabs, to portray otherwise is to distort history.

The author of this piece is an utter idiot; jingoistic in the most pedestrian of cultural ways. India is the source of the earliest mathematics, and the lack of mention in this regards belies his pig-ignorance.

67 posted on 12/17/2004 2:27:19 PM PST by Pahuanui (When a foolish man hears of the Tao, he laughs out loud)
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To: bondserv

Islam, by its very nature, is expansive, tyrannical, non-democratic, and absolutist. Not the stuff of anything scientific!

Further, there is no word for compromise in Arabic.

So, folks, we are dealing with a cult either satanically derived (Rushdie) or divinely sent - to keep Christians on their toes.

As for the mophead cacademiacs spouting mad theories/propaganda of a Muslim "golden age" tell that to El Cid and the Reconquistas and the Orthodox Xstians who kept the flame of freedom and Xstianity alive for centuries.


73 posted on 12/17/2004 5:36:41 PM PST by eleni121 (Best AG ever: John Ashcroft)
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To: bondserv
"The speculative thinkers of the Islamic world were independet men who made their living as physicians, civil servants, lawyers or professional teachers. Their peculiar social background meant, on one hand, that they could afford to be especially bold...

"On the other hand, there was a grave threat to the long-range development of Islamic philosophy in this separation between the religious and intellectual leadership. If the fundamentalists and mystics felt that the traditional religion was actually in danger of subversion by the speculative thinkers and if they could obtain the cooperatio of the state, they would simply silence the expression of rational thought. That is, in fact, what began to happen in the latter part of the eleventh century, and after 1200 scientific thought in the Islamic world was dead."

Source: The Civilization of the Middle Ages by Norman Cantor, p. 361.

77 posted on 12/17/2004 8:06:15 PM PST by nonliberal (Graduate: Curtis E. LeMay School of International Relations)
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