Posted on 12/13/2004 7:03:15 AM PST by OXENinFLA
S.2401
Department of Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2005
Did you read this??????
Provided further, That not less than $62,100,000 shall be transferred to `Other Procurement, Army' for the procurement of Up-armored High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles and associated equipment:
Then in the DoD FY05, [HR 4200, S 2401] introduced 4/22/04 & signed into law 10/28/04, they authorized, under Sec. 112, $610,000,000 to be used for up-armored Humvees (and add-on armor) with the restriction of procurement at a rate up to 450 such vehicles each month.
You're saying they put sec 112 in to make sure the money went towards the humvees, not argument here.
What I'm saying is that with the wording "at a rate up to" essentially put a ceiling on how many Humvees the DoD can buy per month. When that Solider asked Rummy the question in Kuwait the press jumped on Rummy and made it look like he wasn't pushing hard enough to get the new Humvee made. But when he's limited by a bill from Congress on how many he can buy per month, the press leaves that part out, how is Rummy not doing all he can?
lol...you ASSUME that my misspellings were mistakes...maybe not!
First off, I don't think the US has done all it could or should to equip or protect the troops. I think Rumsfeld underestimated the number of troops needed and that has prolonged everything else. He had urgings to increase troop strength but chose not to. I think he's been penny wise and dollar foolish.
The HUMVEE isn't the best vehicle for the patrols or convoy escort. There are many wheeled armored vehicles that would do nicely, but the HUMVEE isn't one of them.
Nothing stops everything and there are always tradeoffs.
You say that famlies are not in the chain of command, yet they can fire the commander in chief or derail his agneda if they don't support it. If the families feel that the president is being careless with their kids' lives they will stop him better than his generals can.
'If the families feel that the president is being careless with their kids' lives'
I think the families should do some soul-searching from the standpoint of safety. Since you admit that the hummer even up-armored is insufficient, lobby Congress to buy something else. War is an inherently unsafe endeavor. Having no war or training/liberty (time off) is the only way to be totally safe. It isn't realistic. Troop strength is an area best left to the mil. There may be other factors or contingencies in play. If you are a soldier, bitch away, I understand that since if they're not bitching they are not caring.
Yes, the 450 per month provision was designed to keep the production rates from being about 1/2 that per month and spread out over a fiscal year. You can kind of do the math. $610MM/$225K/vehicle/450per month and you see that even now sufficient funds are not nearly available to keep the plants moving. There was also a Meehan-Simmons resolution in the house going back to March that demanded that the plants be pushed to capacity with whatever production funds were available. That had no teeth, but it had the meaning which carried in to the wording you referenced. Also note that section b below it which gives the secretary some discretion as to balancing the load. ... Anyway, take a look at the Evanoff article shown on post #58. It is highly accurate on the topic. The plants have not and are not at capacity.
I am not a soldier, but I also don't think you are in any position at all to tell me what war in Iraq is like and to seemingly shrug off the casualties as 'stuff happens' in war.
When was the last time you rode through Al Anbar in patrol or as convoy escort?
I was a helicopter pilot, not an armored position. Not 'shrugging off' casualties at all, just realistic enough to know they will 'happen'. Thinking you are safe doesn't help your SA.
'I am not a soldier'
Good to know.
Bookmark bump for 52
YES! WHO IN CONGRESS DID THIS? WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR SETTING LIMITS ON THE NUMBER OF HUMVEES AND UPARMORED HUMVEES? We really need to know. It couldn't be that someone arranged this limit and then also arranged the bad publicity about the limit now could it? Inquiring minds want to know.
My guess it was set to that number so there wasn't over spending on vehicles (not knowing more would be needed) .. that is understandable
What bothers me is them slamming Rummy for something THEY put in place
This is like the armored helicopter thread. RPGs worked, solution more armor.
'That's not going to go over very well with some of the people around here.'
Now you'll be talking to them. Don't you know there are casualties? Non-mil REMFs bump.
Exactly!!!
The Humvee situation is an example of the new mental disorder of the left wing politicians and their MSM mediots.
Their new mental disorder is Rummy Phobia.
Rummy Phobia is a new mental disorder of the left. Rinos like McAinal are suffering from it. The true conservatives in their minds only, the trolls of Free Republic suffer from Rummy Phobia. Rummy Phobia is obviously transmitted by air, water, touch and the internet.
For example only 450 Humvees per month for use by our military can be built by order of Congress. Yet those afflicted with Rummy Phobia, froth at the mouth and blame Rummy because only 450 Humvees are being built each month for our military.
Rummy Phobia can be detected by the white frothy mouths of the liberals while screaming that Rummy be fired for doing what the senate ordered.
Rummy Phobia is difficult to diagnose as its symptons are similiar to the Hate GW Syndrome which has ravaged the left wing politicians and mediots since 2000.
Rumsfelds management of arming and procuring needed arms for our troops is aiding and abetting the enemy. Other than the fact he gives a lively press conference, he's been a disaster.
Yep, some of us non mil REMFs spend more time outside the wire than do some of the uniformed military.
And some of us non nil REMF types travel the same roads and face the same risks and hazards that the uniformed military does. But most of us are unarmed.
Just so that you know I'm a true weenie that has more than a few miles on the road and in the air in Iraq, I have seen the day to day operations and faced the same frustrations that the troops do. There ain't enough to secure the roads. Just that simple.
But Franks isn't here. And neither are you guys.
What do you guys think about you guys think about spectators that tell the players what they don't need and how they should play the game? Just a wild guess, but I'm guessing that neither of you actually hear what the troops have to say on a day to day basis. Or see their equipment. Or see what happens to it and them.
Apparently I think we can do better and you guys don't. Pretty simple. And remember, I'm just a non-mil REMF, and a weenie to boot!
'Apparently I think we can do better and you guys don't.'
No, you think you KNOW better, there's a difference. Yet you bring nothing to the table but your wanderings. No solutions only bitching. Your empathy for the troop's equipment reminds me of libs who 'support the troops, not the mission'. They have no solutions either nor would they support any, because they would lose the issue as an opportunity to bash the establishment.
'And remember, I'm just a non-mil REMF'
I'll never forget it.
Where are you? Where am I? Maybe one of use sees what is really going on and the other one gets it from TV and computer. Tell me wha goes on with MSR Tampa or Uranium. Or about the racetrack in BIAP. How about telling me what it's like to convoy past Taji. Been on any combat convoys recently? When was the last time you drive through the Sunni Triangle? Unarmed? How many times?
Yeah, I think I know better than most any Freeper what is going on in Iraq, at least from a boots on the ground perspective.
This one we totally disagree on.
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