Posted on 12/06/2004 3:47:04 PM PST by KMC1
Once again, how do you pimp the illegal invader system urod?
The place to start closing our borders to terrorists is Iraq, Iran, Syria,etc..., continuing through overseas internatational airports including Mexico, not wasting unnecessary resources on gardners jumping the fence in El Paso.
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Roderick, all I can say is..."for what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his immortal soul...?"
And they are as crazy the the DUers when it comes to their pet issue. They won't be happy until every Hispanic in the United States is rounded up and exterminated. And they wonder why Republicans get labeled as racists when we have to listen to their spew all the time.
Hey Pimp Daddy BTTT
None of the 9/11 hijackers nor any of over one hundred indicted on terrorist related activities in the last three years entered the way gardeners do.
However, as you know, terrorists do use some of the same illegal alien friendly identification services that illegals recommend:
FLASHBACK: November 5, 2001 Suburban Washington's Terror Trail
Luis Alonso Martinez-Flores is a 28-year-old Salvadoran who, according to an FBI affidavit, "has been living unlawfully in the United States since 1994."
On August 1, he went to the parking lot of the 7-Eleven store on Glen Carlyn Road, just off Leesburg Pike, in Falls Church, Va. His purpose, he later told FBI Special Agent Jesus H. Gomez, was to look "for day labor."
People in the neighborhood knew Martinez. He often hung out, some local businessmen say, near the entrance of a First Union Bank branch at the corner of the Culmore Shopping Center. This center--a strip mall on Leesburg Pike--sits just across a narrow side street from the 7-Eleven. In the middle of the strip, a bit nearer to the bank than to the 7-Eleven, is the Peking Gourmet Inn. This restaurant was such a favorite of the senior President Bush that he reportedly ate there some 50 times during his presidency and vice presidency. President-elect George W. Bush took his brother Marvin there for a birthday dinner in December.
But also last December the restaurant was named in a Washington Post story that did not mention good food or politicians. "Fairfax County police have identified the man who was shot to death in the Culmore Shopping Center last weekend as Thomas X. Duong, 42, of Falls Church," said the Post. "Duong, a cook at the Peking Gourmet Inn, was found dead in his car behind the restaurant. . . . Police said yesterday that he was shot several times in the upper body."
Some local businessmen say that over the last two decades the neighborhood has increasingly become a gathering spot for illegal aliens.
The police can't do anything about it, said one, because they can't arrest someone merely for being an illegal alien. The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) doesn't do anything either, he added, presumably because they lack the resources. Another local merchant noted that in the mornings, when the largest number of illegal aliens congregate in local parking lots, Fairfax County police cars park nearby to keep a watchful eye on the crowd.
But it wasn't a squad car that approached Martinez in the 7-Eleven parking lot on August 1. It was a van carrying two Arab men.
Martinez told Special Agent Gomez that two prospective day laborers approached the two men in the van "but refused to assist Hanjour and Almihdhar when they learned the Arab men wanted help with DMV forms."
Martinez did not share their qualms.
He jumped into the van and directed the two Arabs to drive several miles south to the Springfield Mall. In the mall, they made their way to the "DMV Express," a Virginia state office set up in a storefront.
At that time, to get an official photo identification card from the state of Virginia, a foreign national needed three documents: two to prove his identity, and one to prove his legal residence in the state. A person lacking ordinary documentation of their identity and residence--such as an out-of-state driver's license, a passport, a paycheck, a utility bill--could present the DMV with a pair of certified forms instead. The first form, a so-called DL6, was to establish the applicant's identity. To be legal, a DL6 needed to be signed by a witness who knew the applicant and certified by an attorney in the presence of a notary public. The second, the DL51, which was supposed to establish the applicant's legal residence, needed to be signed--in the presence of a notary public or a clerk at the DMV--by a witness who knew where the applicant lived.
When Hanjour and Almihdhar showed up at DMV Express, they apparently already had two forms of ID--a passport and a legal visa would have been accepted---because they did not submit DL6s to establish their identity. But they did submit DL51s, to "prove" their Virginia residence. Martinez allegedly certified the forms for both of them.
On the forms, the men claimed to live in an apartment complex on the 5900 block of Leesburg Pike--one block down from the strip mall. "This address did not belong to either Hanjour or Almihdhar," Gomez wrote in his affidavit, "but was rather the address that appeared on Martinez's Virginia identification card. Martinez no longer lived at the address, but had in the past."
With their newly minted photo IDs, the two suspected terrorists drove back with Martinez to Culmore. "At the 7-Eleven they all got out of the van," wrote Gomez. "Hanjour and Almihdhar went inside the store and appeared to use the ATM machine. They then came out, paid Martinez $100 in cash for his efforts, and left in the van. Martinez did not see them again."
But the Virginia DMV had not seen the last of these two. Hanjour and Almihdhar were now qualified to certify the legal residency of other terrorists.
That is exactly what they did the next day--at a DMV about three miles from the Pentagon on South Four Mile Run in Arlington.
Wrote Special Agent Gomez: "DMV records also show that Hanjour and Almihdhar used the address Martinez gave them on August 1, 2001, to complete DL51 forms for Majed Moqed (Moqed) and Salem Alhazmi (Alhazmi) on August 2, 2001. Moqed and Alhazmi are believed to be two more of the hijackers who flew Flight 77 into the Pentagon. . . . Hanjour certified Moqed's Virginia residence, Almihdhar certified Alhazmi's Virginia residence. Moqed and Alhazmi submitted these DL51 forms in support of applications for Virginia identifications cards. . . . Both applications were approved."
Al Qaeda had the system down cold. In Minutes
Three other suspected hijackers showed up at the Arlington DMV that very same day. They, too, needed witnesses to help them secure Virginia IDs. But unlike Hanjour and Almihdhar, they needed not only DL51s, to establish a residence, but also DL6s, to establish their identities. That meant they had to have the help of a witness, a notary, and a lawyer.
They got them all in minutes.
Victor M. Lopez-Flores is allegedly one of those who helped. The "INS deported Lopez-Flores to El Salvador on November 19, 1993, following a felony conviction," Special Agent Gomez wrote in an affidavit. "He then returned to the United States unlawfully."
On the day in question, Lopez-Flores later told Special Agent Gomez, "he was standing in a parking lot near the Arlington DMV office with several other Hispanic males.
"There," Gomez writes, "three Arab males approached him in a van with out-of-state plates and sought his assistance in obtaining Virginia identification cards for two of the three of them."
A second Hispanic man, who went by the name of "Herbert," but who carried an ID card in the name of "Oscar Diaz," joined them. "Herbert is in fact Herbert Villalobos," FBI Special Agent Brian G. Weidner said in an affidavit.
Herbert and Lopez-Flores got into Herbert's car and drove to an attorney's office on Columbia Pike in Falls Church. The three Arab men followed in their van.
"According to Lopez-Flores," wrote Gomez, "when they arrived at the attorney's office, he and 'Herbert' took the men into a waiting room where they were all greeted by a female secretary."
The secretary remembered not three, but four, Arab men in her office that day.
"I interviewed Kenys Galicia, the secretary who worked at the attorney's office in Falls Church," wrote Gomez. "Galicia stated that she worked at the attorney's office as a secretary and that she notarized documents for the attorney as well. Galicia stated that a man she knew as 'Victor' and a second Hispanic male brought in four Arab males to her office on our about August 2, 2001."
"Victor" allegedly was a regular customer. "She stated that she has known Lopez-Flores approximately one year," wrote Gomez. "During that time, he brought several people into her office and helped them complete DL6 and DL51 forms."
One of the Arab men in the office that day was Ahmed Alghamdi, one of the suspected hijackers of United Airlines Flight 175, which flew into the World Trade Center towers. Lopez-Flores vouched for his DL51 form, on which Alghamdi falsely claimed to live on Edison Street in Alexandria.
Abdul Alomari was another one of the Arab men in the law office that day. He is a suspected hijacker of American Airlines Flight 11, which also crashed into the World Trade Center towers. Alomari claimed to live on Buchanan Street in Arlington. "Oscar Armando Diaz," whom the FBI believes to be Villalobos, certified Alomari's residency on the DL51. (The actual resident at this location was Villalobos' cousin.)
Villalobos, who told the FBI he believed the men to be Pakistani or Iraqi, added an interesting note. "Villalobos said the attorney then came out of his office and signed the forms as well," wrote Special Agent Weidner. "Here, Villalobos noted that the attorney conversed with the 'Pakistanis' in 'their language.' After this conversation, each 'Pakistani' man paid the secretary $35, and then all returned to the Arlington DMV office. Once back at the DMV office, the 'Pakistani' men paid Villalobos $50 for his assistance and then went into the DMV to get identification cards."
When the FBI later showed Villalobos photos of the suspected September 11 hijackers, he identified five of them--Hani Hanjour, Salem Alhazmi, Majed Moqed, Khalid Alghamdi and Abdul Alomari--as being at the Arlington DMV that day. "These identifications," Special Agent Weidner wrote, "were later confirmed by Virginia DMV records which show that all five men did in fact conduct various transactions relating to Virginia identifications cards at the Arlington DMV on August 2, 2001."
But that did not end the connection between the Virginia DMV and the suspected September 11 hijackers. The agency also has a tie to one of the suspected hijackers of United Airlines Flight 93--the plane that crashed into a field in Pennsylvania after the hijackers were apparently overwhelmed by a group of courageous passengers.
This takes us back down I-395--the main highway heading south from the Pentagon into Virginia--to the Springfield Mall and its "DMV Express."
"DMV records further show that Hanjour used the address Martinez gave him on August 1, 2001, to complete a DL51 form for Ziad Jarrah (Jarrah) on August 29, 2001," wrote Gomez. "Jarrah is believed to be one of the hijackers who commandeered United Airlines Flight 93. Jarrah's DL51 was certified by Hanjour. . . . Jarrah submitted the completed DL51 form in support of an application for a Virginia identification card . . . at the DMV office in Springfield, Va. The application was approved."
As far as the government of Virginia was concerned, five of the September 11 hijackers were just peaceful aliens sharing a small apartment a block from the President's favorite restaurant.
Two more of the suspected hijackers, as far as the state of Virginia was concerned, were peaceful aliens living in Arlington and Alexandria, in neighborhoods close to the Pentagon and Reagan National Airport.
I wish you would hurry up and evolve.
Well, it starts when folks who haven't rolled out the red carpet for illegal aliens get labeled as racists by other Republicans. You shouldn't be so capricious with the term, it loses value when it would really be needed.
Meanwhile... about them thar aliens... and for the 183,576th time... WHY ARE WE LETTING THEM IN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!??
More to the point, why are we focusing on whether or not they can get a steeenking *driver's license* when they get here, rather than KEEPING THEIR FURRY LITTLE BUTTS OUT in the FIRST place???
Why is it more acceptable to make ME put up with being tagged and registered like a cow or a sheep and turned into the property of the State, and have to prove, everywhere I go, that I'm not an illegal alien, rather than CLOSING THE !@#$%^&! BORDERS???
I will NEVER support this idiotic, socialistic, tyrannical sort of stupidity until one of the self-righteous geniuses who keeps yowling about drivers' licenses manages to explain *that* to me...
(And, yeah - I think I'll get out my time machine and send Senselessbrenner back to the Soviet Union circa 1973, where he can live happily ever after checking IDs. Your papers, Tovarich!!)
I will NEVER support this idiotic, socialistic, tyrannical sort of stupidity until one of the self-righteous geniuses who keeps yowling about drivers' licenses manages to explain *that* to me...
You need federally acceptable identification to get on an airplane. Right now drivers licenses fit the bill. However, the states with lax guidelines for issuance give them to illegal aliens, which also makes it easier for terrorists to obtain them.
Sensenbrenner's provision would have disallowed those particular states from having their drivers licenses accpeted for federal ID purposes, such as boarding planes. Those states would have quickly adopted stricter guidelines which would make life more difficult for illegals and terrorists, but would have affected you not at all.
The real report actually says on page 390 : "Immigration Law and Enforcement Our borders and immigration system, including law enforcement, ought to send a message of welcome, tolerance, and justice to members of immigrant communities in the United States and in their countries of origin. We should reach out to immigrant communities. Good immigration services are one way of doing so that is valuable in every way-including intelligence.
It is elemental to border security to know who is coming into the country. Today more than 9 million people are in the United States outside the legal immigration system. We must also be able to monitor and respond to entrances between our ports of entry, working with Canada and Mexico as much as possible.
There is a growing role for state and local law enforcement agencies. They need more training and work with federal agencies so that they can cooperate more effectively with those federal authorities in identifying terrorist suspects.
All but one of the 9/11 hijackers acquired some form of U.S. identification document, some by fraud. Acquisition of these forms of identification would have assisted them in boarding commercial flights, renting cars, and other necessary activities.
Recommendation: Secure identification should begin in the United States. The federal government should set standards for the issuance of birth certificates and sources of identification, such as drivers licenses. Fraud in identification documents is no longer just a problem of theft. At many entry points to vulnerable facilities, including gates for boarding aircraft, sources of identification are the last opportunity to ensure that people are who they say they are and to check whether they are terrorists.41"
It appears that the Commission, unlike you, sees the need for federal standards to keep illegal immigrants from gaining drivers licenses.
Finally, the document that you do refer to seems to undercut the thesis you cite in your Post 50 of other thread, that is a refutation that the hijackers were illegal immigrants.
Page 6 says: "The story begins with “A Factual Overview of the September 11 Border Story.” This introduction summarizes many of the key facts of the hijackers’ entry into the United States. In it, we endeavor to dispel the myth that their entry into the United States was “clean and legal.” It was not. Three hijackers carried passports with indicators of Islamic extremism linked to al Qaeda; two others carried passports manipulated in a fraudulent manner. It is likely that several more hijackers carried passports with similar fraudulent manipulation. Two hijackers lied on their visa applications. Once in the United States, two hijackers violated the terms of their visas. One overstayed his visa. And all but one obtained some form of state identification. We know that six of the hijackers used these state issued identifications to check in for their flights on September 11. Three of them were fraudulently obtained."
On page 62 (adobe page) it says: Terrorists and their supporters committed serial immigration fraud.78 �� Terrorists overstayed their visas. �� Terrorists requested political asylum. �� Terrorists studied in the United States. �� Terrorists traveled under aliases. �� Terrorists entered the United States without an immigration inspection.
Finally, the report you reference never discloses the immigration status of the hijackers when they applied for their licenses. As noted by the report, they were serial immigration defrauders. At any point, they could have been illegal when obtaining their license. So therefore, this report (as well as the real September 11th Report) does nothing to bolster your case.
...continuing through overseas internatational airports including Mexico, not wasting unnecessary resources on gardners jumping the fence in El Paso.
LOL, there are more than just "gardeners" entering our country illegally. A large percentage of Latino gang members in the United States are illegal aliens, plus just about every other category of criminal is crossing over our southern border each day. But in your delusional mind they're all "gardeners".
I see you used the search feature. That's all I found also in the way of recommendations concerning drivers' licenses.
Does that justify Sensenbrenner's proposal to ban the use of all driver's licenses to board planes if those licenses were issued by states that allow illegal immigrants to apply for driver's licenses?
What an asinine comment from a true ass.
My understanding is that the Chinese, in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, simply issued an edict that no one from an Islamic country could board a Chinese airline. Period.
Why aren't we doing *that*, BEFORE we start harassing Grandma for ID when she tries to get on an American airline??
Why didn't we simply round up and deport everyone from every country from where one of the hijackers came, and refuse to let anyone else in, BEFORE we started harassing Grandma for ID??
Why are the rights of NON-CITIZENS in any way even a *consideration*, if the alternative is to harass Grandma for ID??
HMMMM????????
bttt
i totaly agree with you but im afraid time is of the essence here, with the vote being today. im strying trying to figure out how our "representives" can go about thinking america's borders are secure when thousands of mexicans are flocking here. how they can cater to a crimminal is beond me especially when they break a litney of state and federal laws just by entering. its horrific at the ammount of time our congressmen spend trying to cater to them, instead of useing the same resources to deport them back to their country of orgin.
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