Posted on 12/05/2004 10:45:00 PM PST by TBP
COLUMBUS, Ohio, Dec. 5 -- When Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell certifies the state's final presidential election results, declaring President Bush the winner by about 119,000 votes, critics say they intend to present two challenges.
Lawyers representing voters upset about problems at the polls plan to contest the results with the Ohio Supreme Court, citing documented cases of long lines, a shortage of machines and a pattern of problems in predominantly black neighborhoods. In addition, third-party candidates, bolstered by a favorable federal court ruling, plan to file requests for a recount in each of Ohio's 88 counties. About 400 people rallied at the Ohio Statehouse in Columbus on Saturday to demand that a recount begin immediately.
The efforts represent "an incredible long shot," said Steven Huefner, an Ohio State University law professor. "Courts are just incredibly reluctant to overturn the results of an election, absent a really strong showing that something happened that affected the outcome."
Bush defeated Democrat John F. Kerry in the state by two percentage points when provisional and absentee ballots were counted. That was much closer than the totals on election night but not close enough to trigger an automatic recount.
Green and Libertarian party candidates have raised the $113,600 required to pay for a recount. A ruling by U.S. District Judge Edmund A. Sargus Jr. on Friday, rejecting Delaware County's attempt to stop a recount, paved the way for it to begin after Ohio's electors meet on Dec. 13.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
After publicly conceding, Kerry is using the Greens to mount a backdoor challenge to the election results, one which his campaign has now quietly joined. This is something that Kerry had said he was not going to do, but I guess he was against it before he was for it.
Democrats just cannot accept losing gracefully.
This is a lie, isn't it?
Please FReepmail me if you want on or off my ‘miscellaneous’ ping list.
The SLIMES want to cast a "FLORIDA" cloud over our President for four more years. What a bunch of brain warped morons.
As for the cowardly Kerry going through his green and libertarian party friends, he's just trying to satisfy his loony-left base. He thinks that if he joins in the drumbeat of this being a "stolen" election, the democrats will give him another chance to go for the job in '08 that was wrongfully denied him in '04--a Richard Nixon sort of scenario.
This is just a futile exercise, it's not going anywhere. Even if they were to find a way-out-there leftist judge willing to throw out the results, the OH supreme court would reverse it. They also can't fish for more votes since the 2R-2D county election boards would have to get a republican over to their side for any vote to count for Kerry. And unless they have "proof" that meets the legal bar and is prosecutable, it doesn't rise above the level of sore-loser, partisan accusations.
Well maybe if the Democrats hadn't trucked so many unregistered voters to the polls to use provisional ballots (only to have them thrown out), there would have been more opportunity for registered voters to vote.
If you think a margin of 118,000 versus 136,000 is "much" closer, whatever. I think it is abuse of the English language. Would not a better term be "slightly closer?"
L
He says this like it's a BAD thing.
OF COURSE they are reluctant to change the outcome if there's no evidence that something happened that affected the outcome.
However, loser and democrat are synonymous.
This is so sad. Elections will never again be "over." It's time to move on. Kerry is a pathetic loser. Therayzuh has loads of money to keep recounting.How about recounting Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and New Hampshire while we're at it. Maybe we can find some uncounted Republican ballots.
It would be wise for our statistically oriented Freepers to engage and come up with explanations for their array of "evidence". The courts are going to be hearing only one slanted side of the story soon. There needs to be rebuttal. With rebuttal, the courts will not do anything rash. Without it, they may.
I've spent some time over at DU of late...ok so I was bored.
Those people over there are really sick puppies....if they represent mainstream democrats...that party is in serious trouble...
Now this post election debacle....
The scary part is, some of these people hold elected office....and some are even Judges....
Maybe civil war isn't such a bad idea afterall.
Fortunately, the DU-type loonies do not control the political power structure in OH. I think that played a big part in Kerry's conceding so soon, that he knew he wouldn't have very many "friends" in high places that could really help him try to steal the state.
Tell me again; Why hasn't the third party movement taken off in the United States?
(Perplexed Smiley.)
Him closing the gap by that much isn't a big surprise either. Dems seem to gain after election night results, but rarely by a huge amount.
I was lurking over at the Daily Kos and they too are certifiably nuts also
They are are saying that Jon Conyers will be calling for an federal investigation
FINE .. How about we start with Philadelphia .. then we should move on to Chicago
Are there not states that Lurch won by a scant 8000 votes another was 10,000. Why dont Republicans ask for recounts in these states? With all the cheating,votes from felons and dead people by the RATS, We probably won 3 or 4 more states, but dont even know it! These pathetic Dems are recounting themselves into a hole there never going to get out of. Keep it up Dims, you'll never win another election again.People dont want to vote for a party thats a joke and a laughing stock.
I have a DU account, self-cast as a "liberal". I go on all the recount threads and egg them on. Look at the dough that they're wasting on shysters. Rather than spending it on organization or something positive, they're squandering it on something that makes them look loony. I'm lmao at these clowns.
In 2000, Bush did not ask for a recount in New Mexico after the razor-thin Gore victory there. Just look at what is going on in Ohio now, or in Washington state.
'Rats don't seem to get that when they lose, it's their fault, not some error counting the votes.
I think I was banned from DU cause I didn't have the heart to be a "real enough" nutball dim, I kept preaching about honesty and truth, and that the party must move back to the center(dead giveaway I guess)...but...I love your strategy Elvis....Give em Hell......LOL
Bush defeated Democrat John F. Kerry in the state by two percentage points when provisional and absentee ballots were counted. That was much closer than the totals on election night but not close enough to trigger an automatic recount.
:-)
Only in this reality would a party that lost by over 119,000 votes still be concerned every vote wasn't counted. I hope the Democrats obssess over OH for the next four years.
With unlimited money, your government can't count votes reliably. Why again should we trust them with our health care, our retirement funds, our safety standards, etc.
The government can just barely do the things only the government can do. Why give it more things to do?
Idiot liberals.
What they've really told American people is they don't trust them and respect their judgment and no, they are not ready to move on.
I don't think they would use Tereezas money, Ohio would have to foot the bill for th recount, that is the way I understand it & they are not one bit happy about it.
The funny thing is the recount won't change the results and liberals will still be angry at America for being so stupid as to re-elect President Bush.
I have an account there too, but I just cannot pretend to be a RAT! It's too hard, too demeaning, I mostly lurk. If I had posted, many times, what I felt, I'd be banned by now too!
Exactly ... these libs remind me of my 4 yr old when she throws a hissy fit when she doesn't get her way
I COULD HAVE SWORN THAT THE ELECTION WAS OVER ABOUT A MONTH AGO. AFTER RETURNING FROM VACATION I READ A STORY IN THE PAPER AND FOUND THAT I WAS WRONG! IT SEEMS THAT A GROUP OF JOHN KERRY DIE-HARDS, SOME 400 STRONG, PROTESTED OUTSIDE THE OHIO STATEHOUSE TO DEMAND AN IMMEDIATE RECOUNT OF THE RESULTS AND LOOK INTO THE ELECTION DAY "IRREGULARITIES". ONE OF THE PROTESTERS SAID SHE IS CONVINCED THE WINNER WAS KERRY, NOT BUSH. THE PROTESTERS CLAIM, OHIO TOOK VOTES FROM KERRY AND GAVE THEM TO BUSH, AND COMPARED OUR ELECTION WITH THE CURRENT ELECTION IN EASTERN EUROPE. THE KEY TO ALL THIS, ACCORDING TO THEM, WAS THE FACT THAT THERE WERE DISPARITIES IN THE VOTE TOTALS FOR DIFFERENT DEMOCRATS ON THE SAME BALLOT. IN OTHER WORDS, HOW COULD VOTERS ENDORSE SOME DEMOCRATS FOR LESSER OFFICES, AND ENDORSE A REPUBLICAN FOR PRESIDENT? WOW! NOW THERE'S AMMUNITION FOR AN INVESTIGATION IF I EVER HEARD ANY. FOR THIS GROUP OF "400" AND OTHERS THAT SHARE THIS INTERESTING LINE OF THINKING, I WANT TO POINT OUT SOMETHING I READ IN A FLORIDA NEWSPAPER. THE MIAMI HERALD WENT TO THE TWO STRONGEST DEMOCRATIC COUNTIES IN FLORIDA AND RECOUNTED THE VOTES. GUESS WHAT? THEY VOTED FOR GEORGE W. BUSH OVER JOHN F. KERRY BY A HUGE MARGIN! COULD IT JUST BE THAT THE DEMOCRATS PUT UP A LOUSY CANDIDATE? NO MATTER HOW MANY PROTESTERS, HOW MANY DEMANDS FOR A RECOUNT THE ANSWER WILL BE THE SAME. HOWEVER, IF YOU WON'T LET IT GO, WHY NOT ASK SANTA CLAUS FOR A RETROACTIVE WIN....THAT MIGHT WORK.
JERRY THOMAS If Kerry actually magically picked up one million votes in Ohio somehow, he'd have the electoral vote but not the popular. Yet I he'd still be "legitimate" in their eyes.
At the risk of meeting the low intellectual capacity that DUers hold for me...neener, neener, neener.
If there are long lines, you stand in line until your turn to vote comes, and then you vote. By law, the polls must stay open until everyone who was in line before the cutoff time votes. If you give up and go home, you don't vote, and nobody can figure out how to count your vote later, because there is no vote to count.
So, how could election results be overturned because there were long lines? That's just plain silly, and any judge who entertains such a loony idea is equally loony.
"Ohio Recount Efforts Could Trigger Removal Of Bush From Office"......
Title of a thread from another site...They cling to everything..are outraged about too few machines and long lines in an area where a democrat was in charge of ordering the proper number of machines..or leasing..
http://board2.courttv.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=47
for a look at real dem dementia and wildly left wing "Hate Bush" commentary..There may be two conservatives on the site.
"citing documented cases of long lines"
Duh. Did these fools not watch the news. There were long lines all over the country. This is an unintentional back-haned slap at their own party. They are saying that the Dims don't have enough devotion to wait in long lines. There is also an implication that the system must be change since the dims had to wait in line.
http://www.fairnessbybeckerman.blogspot.com/
Found this link on the CTV site I linked above...They will carry this on forever!
Green and Libertarian party candidates have raised the $113,600 required to pay for a recount.I've seen that Heinz makes Green catsup, but I didn't know they had a "Libertarian" version...
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I AGREE. If they want recounts, then let's just have some
recounts in other states that Kerry won. Perhaps there
was a mistake in those states as well, long lines, not
enough machines, Democrat voter fraud, etc. When it comes
to voter fraud, the Democrats have always been champs,
hands down. I was reading an old Reader's Digest a while
back, one going back several years which chronicled the
expertise of the Democrat Party at voter fraud, told how
they did it.
Hi Bill - fellow Floridian here - Palm Beach Gardens.
I think that 90% statement is true. Only us political junkies even know these looney lefties are claiming the Ohio vote was stolen. If Kerry were to suddenly come out with some overt challenge to the vote at this late stage it would surely look like he was trying to steal the whole election and it would doom what little chance he has in '08. Plus with GWB taking an outright majority of the national vote any effort to somehow oeverturn this based on the votes of one state would go over very badly.
There were long lines EVERYWHERE in both conservative and liberal leaning districts. Two hour wait in some precincts in my district.
How would you prove that the long lines deterred someone from voting? There would only be anecdotal evidence unless cameras were trained on all polling places and even then, it could be a set up.
There will be no one in the courtroom to tell judges that there were long lines everywhere. FR is not mounting an effort at rebuttal. Absent rebuttal we start losing court cases.
Shaking head in disbelief ping.
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