Motorcyclist says he was going fast, but not 205 mph

MPLS Star & Sickle ^ | 10-25-04 | Matt Mckinney

[paul51]

He's charged with driving 205MPH. If he is not guilty of the charge, why should he plead guilty?

[Don W]

In traffic court, you are not innocent until proven guilty. You are guilty, and must prove your innocence.

Yes and no. I once fought a ticket that had 2 flagrant flaws on its face plus the time of issue was impossible.

I told the judge the truck was green, not brown: Didn't matter.

The truck was a two-door, not a four door: Didn't matter.

I was testifying in court at the alleged time of the ticket: Didn't matter.

Do we see a pattern emerging here?

The good thing is: I DID beat the ticket, but only after raising a "reasonable doubt" argument. I asked the cop if he'd checked the accuracy of the radar gun AFTER my vehicle exited the beam. The cop said no, the judge shook her head and dismissed the ticket, and I even got a "thumbs up" from several of the other cops in that courtroom as I walked out.

[RobRoy]

Me, 115 in Montana when there was no speed limit. 135 last year. 'Course it was in my Chrysler 300m. I wouldn't go over 85 on my Honda Magna.

My buddy takes his Ninja 1100 on a 3,500 mile western US tour every year. He usually hits something in the 145 mph range. He has well over 200k on motorcycles and has never gone down. Well, except for a wheely last year - but it was minor and he should have known better. 8^>

[RobRoy]

>>I've been to traffic court. I'll tell you how it will go. The judge will pretend to listen to both sides, and say "it is your word against the officer's, and I have no reason to believe that the police officer is lying."<<

Not in a high profile case. And proving this officer wrong would not be too difficult, especially with the attorneys that would probably love to handle this case gratis to make a name for themselves.

If it can be proved through documentation that this speed is not possible, the kid will win.

[Freedom4US]

It's interesting about Montana. During the 55mph debacle foisted on the states in the 70's and 80's, Montana had a flat $5 fine for speeding, payable on the spot, for "wasting energy".

When "Reasonable and Prudent" came about (returned actually)
the fines increased considerably. They (and us) were better off under the old system. I have no idea what the speed limit is now, and I bet it's enforced with heavy fines.

It is a "high profile" case now - seems to me that an example needs to be set here, for other motorists, particularly the organ donor set with high powered crotch rockets. Getting out of the ticket altogether sends the wrong message in my opinion. People need to understand the law applies to them in both spirit and letter, not a game to be played and weaseled out of.

[BraveMan]

It is a "high profile" case now - seems to me that an example needs to be set here, for other motorists, particularly the organ donor set . . .

Oh, an example will be set alright; just not the "correct" one. I've got an additional $10 donation that says the case will be dismissed. It's pretty difficult to refute the laws of physics, even if you are the procecution . . .

[spunkets]

"CBR-1000-RR, it has about 160 BHP"

Check the story, Honda RC-51, ~126 BHP. The dyno showed it could only do 160, so he may have been doing ~140.

[Publius6961]

So he pleads not guilty to going 205mph (which is impossible) and proves that he could in no way been going more than 150mph what will the judge do?

He's got to dismiss.
What next? "OK judge maybe he wasn't doing 150, but maybe 117; let's try 117." The cops blew it. If their initial facts are screwed up, they can't be allowed to keep changing them.

[killjoy]

That kid was riding a CBR-1000-RR, it has about 160 BHP and weighs about 430 lbs. In stock trim it has gone 173 mph, so while it isn't likely he was going 205 mph. With the right tweaking that bike is capable of that kind of speed.

There is not a 1-to-1 correlation between HP and speed. The curve is exponential, not linear. Even a Hayabusa has trouble getting up into the 190s and that is after modifications. MotoGP bikes make it into the very low 200s but they also have around 240hp.

[hayseed]

It was called "unnecessary waste of a natural resource" as I recall. Got a few of those. Funny thing was they charged $5 for the ticket but it took $12 to process it.

[spunkets]

"If their initial facts are screwed up, they can't be allowed to keep changing them."

That's right. The kid's probably got a lawyer who's going to address other matters, such as distance traveled and whether, or not the bike was hopping over the cars that were out there that Sat afternoon. That road will allow only a short stint at something over 100 for only a very short time before other vehicles block the way.

The bike only has 75 ft-lbs of torque/126HP and the gearing is tall, so the bike's going to take some time to wander up anywhere over 120. From this and the other story, both of them punched it for a short bit, then slowed to around the customary speed folks roll along at up there.

I think the cop made this up.

[Boiler Plate]

What kind of knucklehead cop thought a motorcycle could go that fast? Unless he was flying over the nearest drag racecourse.

[Cloud William]

It is a "high profile" case now - seems to me that an example needs to be set here, for other motorists, particularly the organ donor set with high powered crotch rockets. Getting out of the ticket altogether sends the wrong message in my opinion. People need to understand the law applies to them in both spirit and letter, not a game to be played and weaseled out of.

The "organ donor" bunch will not be dissuaded by any legal example. The court would better protect both the letter and spirit of the law by dismissing any charges based on any police officer's observations which are demonstrably false.

Usually, more than one citation is issued in such a case. If they can't nail the kid on the speeding charge, they'll get him on "unsafe operation", or other similar charge.

[RobRoy]

The limit is now 75.

[Nov3]

What kind of knucklehead cop thought a motorcycle could go that fast?

I don't follow it closely but there have been several stone cold stock bikes that have been capable of over 180 in the past 8-10 years. Yamaha had one 7 or 8 years ago that they advertised would go from 0 to 170 to 0 in less than a mile. STOCK out of the factory. These things are hot. A friend of mine sold his 600 cc crotch rocket because he found himself regularly exceeding 100 mph between stoplights. He came in one day and said he was going to sell it because he got in the air over and overpass. He didn't want to die. They are faster than anything you can imagine.

[Freedom4US]

That's kind of my point... A judge should have wide discretion in sentencing. This guy can hardly plead "not guilty" to what is at least unsafe or reckless operation towards everyone else on the road, so yank his license for that, seems simple enough to me. Again I love to drive fast, but there have been far too many innocents who have had their lives ruined by idiots out on the road hotrodding or crotchrocketing. If they only hurt themselves, I could live with that, sort of.

[Boiler Plate]

Going 100 or 120 is very different than going 180. Going 205 is reserved for flat out race bikes. The wind resistance at that speed is tremendous and the skill to control a bike at that speed is rare. Very few people live to tell the tale about how they went 150+ on a motorcycle as your friend can attest to. I think the simplest way to settle this case is just find out what the tires are rated for. You can't go 205 on just run of the mill tires they'd have to be Z and possibly V.

I had a couple of bikes when I was in college and after riding for two years everyone I knew with a motorcycle wiped out. Most got away with bumps and bruises, some got broken bones and one is a quadriplegic. I decided I was way ahead on the odds and sold my bike.

[Melas]

I had a couple of bikes when I was in college and after riding for two years everyone I knew with a motorcycle wiped out. Most got away with bumps and bruises, some got broken bones and one is a quadriplegic. I decided I was way ahead on the odds and sold my bike.

A common story. That's what seperates the bikers from the motorcyclists. The motorcyclists can walk away if they want to, and often do. Bikers have it running through their veins.

[Nov3]

Just a few stock bikes available now.

http://www.bikez.com/bike/index.php?bike=300
http://www.bikez.com/bike/index.php?bike=14
http://www.bikez.com/bike/index.php?bike=4261

[Nov3]

Dodge Tomahawk 2003
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Model:	Dodge Tomahawk
Year:	2003
Category:	Prototype / concept model
Rating:	63.3 out of 100. Show full rating and compare with other bikes
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Displacement:	8277.00 ccm (505.06 cubic inches)
Engine type:	V10
Stroke:	4
Power:	500.00 HP (365.0 kW)) @ 5600 RPM
Torque:	712.00 Nm (72.6 kgf-m or 525.2 ft.lbs) @ 4200 RPM
Max RPM:	6000
Compression:	9.6:1
Bore x stroke:	102.4 x 100.6 mm (4.0 x 4.0 inches)
Fuel system:	Injection
Valves per cylinder:	2
Fuel control:	OHV
Cooling system:	Liquid
Gearbox:	2-speed
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Weight incl. oil, gas, etc:	680.4 kg (1,500.0 pounds)
Front percentage of weight:	49.0
Rear percentage of weight:	51.0
Seat height:	737 mm (29.0 inches) If adjustable, lowest setting.
Wheelbase:	1,930 mm (76.0 inches)
Overall length:	2,591 mm (102.0 inches)
Overall width:	704 mm (27.7 inches)
Overall height:	937 mm (36.9 inches)
Ground clearance:	76 mm (3.0 inches)
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Frame type:	Monocoque, engine is central, stressed member
Front brakes:	Double disc
Front brakes diameter:	508 mm (20.0 inches)
Rear brakes:	Double disc
Rear brakes diameter:	508 mm (20.0 inches)
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Top speed:	482.8 km/h (300.0 mph)
0-100 km/h (0-62 mph):	2.500 seconds
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