GIs who refused job had unarmored trucks

courier press ^ | 10 17 04 | JIM KRANE

[mylife]

I saw Gen Chambers this morning too.

He said that they ran 75,000 missions with 26 total fatalities

[Phsstpok]

Thanks, in the table(s)

[lt.america]

Actually they sandbagged all of the 2 1/2 tons (I believe that was their weight) in Vietnam. I saw a picture of one of the trucks they used in Vietnam and it looked like something out of Mad Max, because it was sandbagged all over and they had mounted a Gatling Gun on the bed and it had a M60 on the roof.

[CindyDawg]

I want them to have the best equipment too and this needs to be looked into but isn't the real problem soldiers not following orders? There are chain of commands they can go thru without refusing isn't there? This might have been a legitimate and urgent concern but can the military have the troops out guessing and deciding what they will do and what they won't, whenever they want?. Sounds like a big problem developing to me.

[Mr. Jazzy]

This story REALLY smells.

At first, they were refusing to transport "tainted" aircraft fuel, and were "saving lives of US personnel" by refusing to send the fuel forward.

Then, it was a "suicide" mission that they were refusing, which had to be completed by regular Army personnel.(No attacks were made on the convoy during the "suicide mission")

NOW they refused because they didn't have armor plated vehicles?

This story stinks more than an outhouse in August, in FLORIDA!

[aft_lizard]

one of these days I will scan and post a picture of my 5 ton, they called us the beverly hillbillies because out truck looked like the only thing missing was granny.

[charleston1]

They also routinely sandbagged APCs, specifically the M113 according to General Tommy Franks in his biography. IIRC they had a lot of aluminum in them. I could be wrong on the aluminum but I think that is why they used the sandbags--the armor was so poor you were better off on top behind a sandbag than in the vehicle.

[lt.america]

I thought the Gen. did well considering he had to field questions from NPR, NYT, and ABC when I was watching. IMO it sounds like the Army is going above and beyond in the way they are handling this case, and the Gen. was quick to point out how well the 343rd had performed while in Iraq (although it sounds like SOME of the soldiers they have are a bunch of whiners).

[aft_lizard]

Or burning crap in Iraq( which makes me think that if they are still doing that duty over there these soldiers might be burning poop for a living for awhile over there)

On a side note, I think what will happen is that a few squad leaders will receive field grade article 15's and the rest counseling statements, if not for refusing a order but for not following proper military protocal

[lt.america]

I would appreciate that. Shortly the 5 ton will also be a thing of the past when they get the 7 1/2 ton completely fielded. The M813 is still dear to my heart though.

[HighlyOpinionated]

And who do we have to thank for voting NO on the $87 million bill to reinforce the vehicles and provide the armor the military needs??????

A- John Forbes Kerry
B- John Forbes Kerry and John Edwards
C- John Edwards
D- All of the above.

[Jack Deth]

Humvees have been 'upgraded' with diamond and armor plate, freepatriot. With not so good results. The weight of the steel armor affects the vehichle's Center Of Gravity and makes the Humvees just as susceptable to rolling as its earlier predecessor. The Jeep.

Use less armor. Adapt with the tried-and-true method of having the driver and three riders. Leave the shotgun seat empty. Put the three in the back uncovered. In a diamond formation. To return fire immediately if ambushed.

Or scrap the Humvees for convoy. Wrong vehichle, anyway. And replace the Humvees with M-113 Armored Personnel Carriers. With a driver. One in the 50. caliber cupola. Plus flankers behind the two M-60 positions.

Leave the box inside the M-113 for storage of lots of ammo.

Jack.

[DTogo]

My best friend (we were commissioned together) spent 13 months over there from Day 1 attached to the 101st, driving a soft-top unarmored Humvee the whole time, sometimes at night with malfunctioning headlights, many times under fire (lotsa bullet and shrapnel holes in the Humvee and canvas top he said), and in 140 degree temperatures (obviously no A/C) - so hot he often couldn't drink his bottled water 'til he found a way to cool it down (hanging it in a wet sock until it was only midly hot to drink). He never refused orders - he did his duty and took care of his men, several of whom were decorated for their service!

These guys are starting to look more and more like malcontents at best, cowards at worst. Naturally they're heroes to the Kerry campaign.

[LibertarianInExile]

That wasn't a remote controlled truck you saw. It was an AI operated truck, one that needed no input whatsoever from humans while it operated. No one has yet done it. But a remote truck should be a snap (if, as another Freeper mentioned, we can get by those pesky manual transmissions on the big rigs).

[McGavin999]

The gal who called home to mama telling her to raise some cain should get latrine duty for the rest of her enlistment.

[aft_lizard]

There was quite a few LMTV(M1078) and HMTV over there, there problem either was driver training or just poorly built because they broke down constantly and got stuck in sand far more than the average 5 ton. They were supposed to be the replacement vehicle for the 5 ton. HMTV LMTV/FMTV/MTV SERIES TRUCKS

[raynearhood]

DTogo, your friend's experience is exactly like mine (from day 1 also) and everyone in my unit. It is also exactly like the experiences of countless other soldiers who, like your friend, never refused orders.

BTW, the wet sock thing only worked if it was hung from your trucks rearview mirror while driving.

[aft_lizard]

Of course this is my favporite Army Truck the HET at max capacity it weighs 115 tons(231,000 lbs)

[PJammers]

Here's the bottom line:

THEY DISOBEYED AN ORDER IN A COMBAT ZONE!

They could have been lawfully executed!

The only reason they are temporarily free is because they need a few warm bodies to do some dirty work. Besides where could they run off to?

Mark my words they WILL be prosecuted and sentenced. They are a disgrace to every fighting man/women in the armed forces!

[aft_lizard]

I wouldnt quite go as far as you in saying that, we still dont know the whole story. Even in a Combat Zone you have the right to refuse an unlawful order.