Out With the Neocons in Bush's Second Term (Paleocon dinosaur droppings)

The Chicago Sun-Times ^ | October 9, 2004 | Thomas Roeser

[quidnunc]

The day after George W. Bush is certifiably re-elected (which, please God, will come without a recount, as in 2000), I hope a revolution will occur. Neither Bush (by constitutional fiat) nor Dick Cheney (by reason of health) can run for president. Then there will be a chance to return the GOP to its old stance wisely born of reluctance to commit our military forces to every nook and cranny in the global village. New leadership following a limited foreign policy would prompt party philosophy hewn to the lines advocated by Sen. Robert A. Taft (R-Ohio).

That would mean the so-called neocons, former liberals all, would be supplanted. A shorthand history of the GOP in the latter half of the 20th century saw Dwight Eisenhower apply Taft's wise dictum, which avoided undue involvement in Vietnam, Richard Nixon's rapprochement with China and Ronald Reagan's victory over the U.S.S.R. without a shot being fired. But after 2000, certain neocons came to believe the United States should be committed to imperial overstretch to inculcate democracy in lands that have never known it nor want it.

The Iraq war is not the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time. Bush received faulty intelligence; he lied to no one — no more than a weather forecaster lies when prediction of rain does not come true. Bush will go down in history as a decisive war president, in the same sense Harry Truman was with Korea.

-snip-

[unspun]

Here you go, Tom, from a forty-five year old, old, conservative:
http://www.illinoisleader.com/opinion/opinionview.asp?c=5010

[unspun]

Opposers of the defense of freedom have called Operation Iraqi Freedom an unjust, "preemptive attack."

--We say this is a resumption of the suspended assault on Iraq which began with their invasion of Kuwait on their way to Saudi Arabia twelve years ago. Imagine the millions of lives saved, had we driven back Hitler's invasion of the Sudetenland, and then after repeated violations of the terms of his surrender, we then continued to liberate Germany from the Nazis in the Thirties. How many millions of lives would have been saved?

Now imagine the terrible evil of Saddam Hussein and the B'ath Socialist Party with weapons of mass destruction including nuclear missiles, holding the entire Middle East hostage and taking control. We Americans have learned from history. Never again, can we allow such an evil empire to form and dominate a region.

[Mr. Mojo]

And they have been immeasurably aided by propagandists from outside who propel the false idea of U.S. military manifest destiny: conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer; William Kristol, who runs the Weekly Standard; his father, Irving, and his mother, the historian Gertrude Himmelfarb.

Strange, there are literally hundreds of well-known conservative columnists and pundits who support the administration's policy in Iraq, but this author names only the Jewish ones.

[Reagan Man]

Dick Cheney is no neocon! What an absurd comment to make in public.

[Avenger]

I think I'm a mesocon.

[coconutt2000]

I'm a Pokécon... *groan* okay, bad joke.

[Reagan Man]

Oh yeah. Don Rumsfeld is no neocon either.

[sinkspur]

Scratch a paleo, and you inevitably find.....well, you know the rest.

[A2J]

Scratch a paleo,

And you'll have your hat handed to you with your rear end in it.

[sinkspur]

And you'll have your hat handed to you with your rear end in it.

Only if it's a yarmulke.

[sheltonmac]

That would mean the so-called neocons, former liberals all, would be supplanted.

"Former liberals"? First of all, neocons are merely big government "conservatives." Secondly, what reason would Bush have to start cleaning house after the election? What incentive is there for him to start acting like a true conservative now?

[iopscusa]

Yeah these old Paleo's are pissed about something, I imagine it is that they have a 60 yr+ record of gving in to the Left Libs....and very little to show for it, except for RR stand against Communism!

[matchwood]

Yah well, I am 75+ and support Bush unconditionally and here comes the "but" - historically it has been the Democrats who have got into wars and Republicans come along and clean up the mess.

It's a feel good thing to have a president who is a nice guy but that can only go so far - his problem is he can't seem to fire people who continually screw up and we all pay the price for that.

If he had a Secretary of State who wasn't concerned about his delicate public image perhaps this war would not have been necessary (Iraq). Foreign countries don't seem to like us and we should stop trying to compensate for their hurt feelings.

We need a Secretary of State who will fire about 75% or the brass in the Department of State and begin to appoint people who represent America not themselves. Tough people in those jobs could "tell" the weenies around the world what we will accept and what we won't accept and if they don't like it that would be their loss. Time to get tough.

[Restorer]

In an address before the House on Feb. 15, 1848, Abraham Lincoln had said: ''Allow the president to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect. If today he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada, to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him 'I see no probability of the British invading us,' but he will say to you: 'Be silent: I see it, if you don't.' ''

I must be missing something here. If I'm not confused, Honest Abe did not have to worry about a sneak attack with WMDs.

I think that makes direct application of his thoughts remarkably inappropriate for today's world.

[jammer]

Yeah these old Paleo's are pissed about something, I imagine it is that they have a 60 yr+ record of gving in to the Left Libs....and very little to show for it, except for RR stand against Communism!

GIVING IN to the Left Libs? I think you may have it backwards. We're pissed because YOU folks give in to the Left Libs.

You are a winner, however: I've been on FR every day for 6 years, and that's the most non-sensical comment I've read.

[Stepan12]

Yeah these old Paleo's are pissed about something, I imagine it is that they have a 60 yr+ record of gving in to the Left Libs....and very little to show for it, except for RR stand against Communism!

The Paleos are aligning with the Left against those joos who have Conservative views (the neo Conservatives melded into the Conservative movement years ago). The Paleos are reviving the Hitler/Stalin pact -- except this time it's the mini Stalins (the Left) that knows what they are doing and the Paleos are acting on mere ugly emotions.

[nosofar]

If I'm not confused, Honest Abe did not have to worry about a sneak attack with WMDs. I think that makes direct application of his thoughts remarkably inappropriate for today's world.

I disagree. There were sneak attacks long before 'WMD's existed. The principle is that if the President can invade a nation (or authorize any other military action on foreign soil) because he sees the current situation in that nation as a threat (or future threat), he may also do so merely by declaring this threat to exist whether or not it really does. This is applicable to any war and always will be. I would disagree with the original statement by Lincoln (maybe it's a little out of context), although I also think it's necessary for the President to have a greate deal of evidence to support any decision of this kind.

[KStorm]

I've been called a cro-magnocon!

[Restorer]

I think you are forgetting that Bush did not decide to invade Iraq on his own authority. He went to Congress and got its authorization, as the Constitution called for him to do.

I also find it difficult to imagine that any American would expect the President to allow a nuke to be detonated in America because it wouldn't be sporting to strike first.