Posted on 10/06/2004 8:44:49 AM PDT by -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
Is the Sun really hot?
The question is, on the face of it, almost insane. No-one could possibly doubt that the sun is the only source of external heat on earth. And, certainly, the part that we see, the sun's photosphere, is some 5,800 degrees Kelvin. The solar corona, which extends into space, may be as hot as one million degrees Kelvin. But what exactly is underneath this hot atmosphere? The explanation universally accepted without question is that it must be an even hotter mass of hydrogen gas, fusing into helium and other elements at temperatures of 15 million degrees Kelvin in a continuous thermonuclear explosion -- a giant H bomb.
This universal view is based on the mathematical work of Arthur Eddington in the 1930s and Hans Bethe's theoretical confirmation in the 1950s (for which he won the Nobel prize in 1967). Above all else, we have the overwhelmingly awesome experimental confirmation of the nature of nuclear fusion by the test detonations of H bombs in the Pacific.
However, physicists have always been aware of nagging problems with the conventional view of how stars form and how they burn. And now, Italian physicist Renzo Boscoli, has published details of a theory that is staggering: the theory that far from being hot underneath its atmosphere, the sun may, at its core, be a ball of ice in which not hot, but cold fusion reactions are taking place.
The conventional view of how stars form is that a cloud of interstellar hydrogen collapses under gravity until, under enormous pressure, the atoms of hydrogen become so hot they fuse to form helium. Once ignited, the core of the newly formed star burns continuously, transmuting hydrogen to helium, helium to carbon and so on, until the fuel is exhausted and the star's life is over.
There are some problems with this view. For instance, when gases are compressed, as under gravity, they also heat up, and this makes them expand. As temperature increases, the outward force due to expansion will become greater than the force of gravity compressing the gas and the gas will simply dissipate in space again. How then could the condensing hydrogen cloud ever ignite spontaneously?
There are many other puzzling features of the sun: how can a surface at 'only' 5,800 degrees Kelvin give rise to a corona of 1 million degrees Kelvin? Why does the surface rotate faster at the equator than at higher latitudes? Why does the planet Mercury have a strangely perturbed motion?
In two ground-breaking papers published in Infinite Energy magazine, Renzo Boscoli offers some astounding answers to these puzzles.
Boscoli points out a phenomenon discovered in the 1930s but -- like many such anomalies -- virtually ignored since. French physicist Georges Ranque discovered that if you make a body of gas rotate, as in a turbine, the hottest (most energetic) molecules are somehow separated to the outside of the mass, while the gas at the centre gets colder. It is relatively easily experimentally to make a 'Ranque tube' where the difference in temperature between air in the middle and air at the outside is more than 100 degrees C, simply by causing the air to rotate.
This experimental result appears to contradict the laws of thermodynamics and at present remains unexplained. But Boscoli points out that its implications for the formation of stars may be immense.
While a cloud of hydrogen condensing under gravity is an unlikely candidate for a new star because heat would make it expand and dissipate again, a rotating cloud of hydrogen would give rise to a remarkable object -- one where the temperature at its exterior would continue to rise while the temperature at its core would continue to fall. At first the hydrogen core would become so cold it would liquify and finally solidify.
Says Boscoli, 'If this mass of gas . . . would begin to rotate upon itself, it would necessarily assume a progressively flatter ellipsoidal form as its rotational velocity increased. And . . the Ranque effect would begin to be exerted, therefore producing a cooling at the centre and a heating of the periphery of the ellipsoid.'
He adds, 'Due to a constant Ranque effect I see no reason why the centre would not continue to cool towards absolute zero.'
Boscoli first conceived his ideas some thirty years ago. He has published them for the first time because the Arecibo radiotelescope has reported finding an enormous hydrogen cloud that is very cold (around minus 200 degrees C) and that is rotating on its own axis.
Boscoli goes onto add that nuclear reactions such as that of the H bomb are impossible at absolute zero. But he believes that 'cold' nuclear fusion reactions may be possible due to the immense gravitational pressures. The reaction he envisages is that of the gravitational collapse of a proton and electron, producing a neutron.
Boscoli's theory solves the problem of Mercury's strange orbit and the sun's differential rotation. It also explains sunspots as simply holes in the atmosphere. If Boscoli is right, there may after all, be 'something new under the sun.'
So9
Is the Sun really hot?
Is Kerry really dorky?
Cool!
Nothing "tin foil hat" about it. An interesting hard physics hypothesis that explains some things currently not addressed by "standard physics". I wonder how this would factor into the "missing neutrino" data.
Hey let's send this clown to find out if the "Sun is Hot".....after all he is already dressed for the trip!!
The secret is out! LOL
Bump for fun reading :-)
My radar went off on this journal name.........
"In two ground-breaking papers published in Infinite Energy magazine"
All science beyond our planet is pure conjecture, guess work and will all proven to be wrong in 50 years by even more guess work. Scientists that study outer space and make claims are fools.
I'll just skip to the punchline to save bandwidth: "It's OK... We're going at night."
Thank you! Thank you! Tell your friends: I'm here all week. Don't forget to try the veal.
This explains all the people who get frostbite from lying out in the sun, all right.
That's really funny!
It's only hot during the day!
Kewl.
Just damn.
If you want on the list, FReepmail me. This IS a high-volume PING list...
In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, 2the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, ‘Let there be light’; and there was light. 4And God saw that the light was good
NRSV version
Is the sun really hot?
Okay! Who wants to volunteer to be the test guinea pig?
I just read that two Islamic scientists from Iran, Mohammed Abu and Ali Abbas are working on a rocket that will go to the sun and return with important information on solar heat. They couldn't develop a coating for the rocket that can withstand the sun's intense heat, so they decided to launch it at night, when the sun isn't shining.
Bookmark for later reading in my secret lab.
Its pure tinfoil bs.
Regarding the "missing neutrino" data. They solved that. Mathematically they determined there are 3 types of neutrinos. Factoring that in, everything comes out correctly.
My head hurts. I'm still working on whether water is wet or not. But it could be true - I've seen a friend of mine drinking scotch on the rocks, and inside the swirling liquid there's this little solid cubical thingy...
I don't think so. It's my impression that the high temperature of the solar corona and the other "unexplained" things mentioned in the article are in fact now well understood.
The real tip-off that this is a crank is the mention of perturbations of Mercury's orbit. Mercury's orbit precesses in an anomalous way (as far as Newtonian mechanics goes) -- but this is precisely explained by general relativity, which has abundant experimental evidence. I say this is a tip-off that this is a crank because that's something cranks like to do: disprove Einstein. For the mathematically-inclined, a nice treatment of general relativity and the orbit of Mercury is given by Frank Morgan in his little book Riemannian Geometry: A Beginner's Guide.
As far as fusion and the Sun goes, decades of observations of supernovae and other stellar phenomena have provided a rather complete picture of stellar fusion processes. I would be willing to trust the physicists and astronomers on this one.
|
|
Reading that made my head hurt. |
Astouding (not)...
Celebrated and uncelebrated scientists alike have said for years that the sun is cooling off...Eventually, the flame will burn out...So what's that??? Evolution going backwards???
I had to quit reading when I read "degrees Kelvin." That ruined it for me. From what I remember Kelvin is measured simply in Kelvin, not degrees Kelvin. See here - http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/kelvin.html.
"the sun so hot, I froze to death...with my banjo on my knee"
When will America wake up to the threat of Solar Warming?
We need a GLOBAL TEST.
As is much of the science on our planet.
Muleteam1
Come on. This is a joke.
ouch!!! The sun ain't that hot!!!!!!
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Is the sun hot? this is getting to advanced for me. Is water whet, is ice frozen? Do I know everything or nothing? What's the point of getting into this stuff anyway? The sun keeps us warm and gives us light. That is all I know, and care.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!
Good one.
I've always been interested in - cosmology!!
"Mathematical determination" itself is tinfoil-hattery--until verified by experiment.
Please indulge me in a few nit-picks. When gases heat up, they TRY to expand. If they cannot, due to constraints, they get even hotter.
Temperature is a measurement of molecular velocity. The hotter it is, the faster it runs around, bouncing off of neighboring molecules. When the velocity of two colliding hydrogen molecules is high enough, they stick together. Voila! Fusion.
One thing that is not investigated enough is the grainy appearance of the outer surface of the Sun. It resembles the same texture as the top of clouds that form over the northern California coast in the summer, the result of vertical movement within the cloud layer. There must be a tremendous amount of radial movement within the volume of the Sun.
-G.I. Gurdjieff, Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson, Chapter 17
Maybe the sun works like a microwave - the unit itself doesn't get hot, but the food inside does. We'll never know for sure, though, until we construct a sun-sized thermometer.
ping
"For instance, when gases are compressed, as under gravity, they also heat up, and this makes them expand."
When gases are compressed, they increase in temperature; they then give off heat, due to the temperature differential.
Compressing gases doesn't "make them expand." That's a ludicrous statement.
Out of curiosity, did they ever experimentally prove the existence of all three types, or is this just a mathematical construct? Understand, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I hate to see untested equations masqueraded as solutions to difficult scientific problems.
"'If this mass of gas . . . would begin to rotate upon itself, it would necessarily assume a progressively flatter ellipsoidal form as its rotational velocity increased. And . . the Ranque effect would begin to be exerted, therefore producing a cooling at the centre and a heating of the periphery of the ellipsoid.'"
Not much into physics but from what I gather:
If we tell that bag of gas, Jeffink, to rotate, eventually he will freeze up and stfu?
Seems worth a shot....
Infinite Energy Magazine has been in publication since March 1995. It is a technical magazine with editorial outreach to the general public as well. To maintain the highest editorial standards, it is written and edited by scientists, engineers, and expert journalists. It is aimed at pioneering scientists, engineers, industrialists, environmentalists, and investors who are concerned about an exciting R&D area that we believe will change the world dramatically. Infinite Energy is circulated around the world to over 40 countries. And, Infinite Energy is distributed to newsstands in the U.S. and Canada.
We are pleased to offer subscriptions to Infinite Energy Magazine. One year subscriptions are for six issues. The North American price is $29.95, and foreign locations are $49.95.
I think someone heard the term "freezer burn" and got the wrong idea.
I checked out the website.
Lottery ESP
Perpetual Motion
IQ level of 6, tops.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
