STATEMENT FROM DAN RATHER (UPDATE: Statement released)

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[TheGeezer]

Update by moderator:

EXCLUSIVE

STATEMENT FROM DAN RATHER:

Last week, amid increasing questions about the authenticity of documents used in support of a 60 MINUTES WEDNESDAY story about President Bush's time in the Texas Air National Guard, CBS News vowed to re-examine the documents in question—and their source—vigorously. And we promised that we would let the American public know what this examination turned up, whatever the outcome.

Now, after extensive additional interviews, I no longer have the confidence in these documents that would allow us to continue vouching for them journalistically. I find we have been misled on the key question of how our source for the documents came into possession of these papers. That, combined with some of the questions that have been raised in public and in the press, leads me to a point where—if I knew then what I know now—I would not have gone ahead with the story as it was aired, and I certainly would not have used the documents in question.

But we did use the documents. We made a mistake in judgment, and for that I am sorry. It was an error that was made, however, in good faith and in the spirit of trying to carry on a CBS News tradition of investigative reporting without fear or favoritism.

Please know that nothing is more important to us than people's trust in our ability and our commitment to report fairly and truthfully.

[Cboldt]

Here is an interesting angle. A forgery, might have an effect on a voter's impression of a candidate, the forgery purports to be an official governmentd document, but not a US document, and the document does not affect the legal rights of any living person ...

Newsweek
Updated: 11:31 a.m. ET Dec. 19, 2003

Dec. 17 - A widely publicized Iraqi document that purports to show that September 11 hijacker Mohammed Atta visited Baghdad in the summer of 2001 is probably a fabrication that is contradicted by U.S. law-enforcement records showing Atta was staying at cheap motels and apartments in the United States when the trip presumably would have taken place, according to U.S. law enforcement officials and FBI documents.

The new document, supposedly written by the chief of the Iraqi intelligence service, was trumpeted by the Sunday Telegraph of London earlier this week in a front-page story that broke hours before the dramatic capture of Saddam Hussein. TERRORIST BEHIND SEPTEMBER 11 STRIKE WAS TRAINED BY SADDAM, ran the headline on the story written by Con Coughlin, a Telegraph correspondent and the author of the book "Saddam: The Secret Life."

Coughlin's account was picked up by newspapers around the world and was cited the next day by New York Times columnist William Safire. But U.S. officials and a leading Iraqi document expert tell NEWSWEEK that the document is most likely a forgery--part of a thriving new trade in dubious Iraqi documents that has cropped up in the wake of the collapse of Saddam's regime.

"It's a lucrative business," says Hassan Mneimneh, codirector of an Iraqi exile research group reviewing millions of captured Iraqi government documents. "There's an active document trade taking place ... You have fraudulent documents that are being fabricated and sold" for hundreds of dollars a piece.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3741646/ <-- Link

[Cboldt]

Paid?? Where does it say that someone must be 'paid' to effect forgery

You're mixing apples and oranges there. I was trying to be brief in expressing the "fraud" angle of this forgery. My general project has been to put the Killian forgeries and CBS broadcast in the framework of criminal statutes.

Just throwing sticks at me isn't helpful at all.

[Brad’s Gramma]

Click here, please!

I think I'll stop now. :)

[Cboldt]

A Forgery was involved in Garfield's election too. I think that is mentioned on this thread.

Here are some links to pictures of the newspaper of the time. A bit of history. I have no idea if criminal charges were brought.

http://memory.loc.gov/rbc/rbpe/rbpe16/rbpe160/1600140b/001dq.gif <-- Picture
An American Time Capsule: Three Centuries of Broadsides and Other Printed Ephemera
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/rbpehtml/rbpebibTitles35.html

[Cboldt]

Here is a real humdinger!

In October 1924 the MI5 intercepted a letter written by Grigory Zinoviev, chairman of the Comintern in the Soviet Union. In the letter Zinoviev urged British communists to promote revolution through acts of sedition. Vernon Kell, head of MI5 and Sir Basil Thomson head of Special Branch, were convinced that the letter was genuine. Kell showed the letter to Ramsay MacDonald, the Labour Prime Minister. It was agreed that the letter should be kept secret but someone leaked news of the letter to the Times and the Daily Mail.

The letter was published in these newspapers four days before the 1924 General Election and contributed to the defeat of MacDonald and the Labour Party. After the election it was claimed that two of MI5's agents, Sidney Reilly and Arthur Maundy Gregory, had forged the letter and that Major Joseph Ball, a MI5 leaked it to the press. In 1927 Ball went to work for the Conservative Central Office where he pioneered the idea of spin-doctoring.

Research carried out by Gill Bennett in 1999 suggested that there were several MI5 and MI6 officers attempting the bring down the Labour Government in 1924, including Stewart Menzies, the future head of MI6.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUzinoviev.htm <--

The link has lots of comments and additional history. Quite an amazing event there, too.

[RedWhiteBlue]

Well I'm impressed. You've been copied by Rush!

[brityank]

I am sorry. That stick was not to you personally, but against the Profession in general; every time I've been involved (Thankfully few) or heard of esoteric cases, the bottom line is always what did it 'cost' the aggrieved party, and how much will make it whole. Because of that, Principle has taken a back seat far too often, as it appears this situation will.

My bottom line take is that this was a fraud perpetrated by Rather and CBS using false evidence provided by known members of the Democrat party, and knowingly presented as truthful in order to undermine the elected Government of the United States. I don't care how anyone tries to spin or excuse it; it was a naked attempt to stage a coup.

Also, thank you for the info and knowledge you and others have brought here. The thing that the MSM fails to grasp is that there are hundreds of experts from all fields available at the click of a key here on the web, and FR has more than anyplace else I've seen.

[Cboldt]

My bottom line take is that this was a fraud perpetrated by Rather and CBS using false evidence provided by known members of the Democrat party, and knowingly presented as truthful in order to undermine the elected Government of the United States.

I see it exactly as that, myself, although as a matter of being "neutral," I call it as attempting to discredit a candidate for the Office, instead of undermining the elected government. Semantics only. We agree that the DEMs were using dirty tricks, including a complicit media, to manipulate the public.

thank you for the info and knowledge you and others have brought here. The thing that the MSM fails to grasp is that there are hundreds of experts from all fields available at the click of a key here on the web, and FR has more than anyplace else I've seen

My pleasure. This is one of the best places I have seen for hashing out ideas and facts, speculation, etc. It is in general a bit noisy, but once the skills of "speed reading" and "cutting through the crap" are developed, there is more accurate, raw information here than any other place I have seen.

I'm having fun looking up historical instances of forgeries being used in election dirty tricks. The KGB used to feed garbage to the press all the time. A manipulable public is desired by all who aspire to be elites or kings.

[claudiustg]

Here's an interesting case:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=6th&navby=case&no=950140p

RECOMMENDED FOR FULL-TEXT PUBLICATION


Pursuant to Sixth Circuit Rule 24


ELECTRONIC CITATION: 1995 FED App. 0140P (6th Cir.)


File Name: 95a0140p.06


No. 94-5040


UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS


FOR THE SIXTH CIRCUIT


_________________

NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS

BOARD,

Petitioner,

v.

HUB PLASTICS, INC.,

Respondent.

---W]e rule today that we will no longer probe into the truth or falsity of the parties' campaign statements, and that we will not set elections aside on the basis of misleading campaign statements. We will, however, intervene in cases where a party has used forged documents which render the voters unable to recognize propaganda for what it is. Thus, we will set an election aside not because of the substance of the representation, but because of the deceptive manner in which it was made, a manner which renders employees unable to evaluate the forgery for what it is.---

So, the court clearly distinguishes between false propaganda and forged documents to influence elections.

[Cboldt]

Here is a law that, if the conduct was in the state of New Hampshire, might make the Killian forgeries and their publication illegal:

Illegal Influence

666:6 False Documents, Names or Endorsement
. Any person who shall, without authority, sign the name of another person to any letter or other document, or falsely represent that any other has written such letter or document, knowing such representation to be false, for the purpose of influencing votes, or who shall by false representation, use, employ or assign the name of any other person, or a fictitious name on a radio or television broadcast or other means of communication, to signify endorsement of a political party, candidates or programs, or, for the purpose of influencing votes, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

666:7 Publication of Forged Document
. Whoever publishes any such forged letter or document, knowing the same to be forged, with like intent, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor if a natural person and shall be guilty of a felony if any other person.

http://www.sos.nh.gov/rsa666.htm <- State of NH

I'm not certain the law is on the books today, and in any event, the penalties aren't big. And, I wonder if the law is or would be narrowly construed to cover forged signatures of the candidates (see e.g., Garfield campaign) or contemporaneous "issues" writings, or both.

The best antidote to campaign mischief is a skeptical and educated public, in any event.

[brityank]

... I call it as attempting to discredit a candidate ...

Were it not the sitting President I would agree, but the result of this action were it successful would have been the overthrow of President Bush.

A manipulable public is desired by all who aspire to be elites or kings.

True; which is why I believe that the Founding Fathers basically had it correct in limiting the franchise to vote to those who directly contributed to the upkeep and maintenance of the Government and Country. The democratic ideals that are so vehemently touted by the socialists in both major parties will, I fear, hasten either the slide of the US into balkanized fiefdoms or another Civil War.

So you don't believe my cite from the US Code is pertinent to the situation?

[Cboldt]

So you don't believe my cite from the US Code is pertinent to the situation?

No, I don't, for more than one reason. First, the entity defrauded is not an agent or agency of the US Government. Even if there was a fraud on CBS, is would not be a fraud on the US Government.

[B.Bumbleberry]

About an hour ago heard Rather's interview of provider of documents. He claimed he did not know the documents were fake and that he was pressured by CBS to authenticate them even though he had no way of doing so. THE QUESTION RATHER DID NOT ASK: "WHERE OR FROM WHOM DID YOU GET THE DOCUMENTS?" In other words, CBS is controlling this story. The pertinent information is being suppressed, and the story being touted is just a cover story.

[brityank]

First, the entity defrauded is not an agent or agency of the US Government.

OK. Now I see the problem. We seem to have different beliefs in what constitutes 'Government'. I maintain that you and I and the rest of the People are "the Government", and we elect our representatives to stand in for us to effect governance. While I admit that this seems rather altruistic, I believe it does represent the basis established by the Founding Fathers.

As to the fraud being against CBS, Rather himself admitted that their own experts warned them before they broadcast that there were strong reservations against the documents that they discounted, because it 'felt' like the type of thing Killian would have said. That Rather did not divulge those expert misgivings during the initial broadcast tells me he and CBS willingly supported and permitted this fraud to occur. Knowing receipt of a forged instrument is a crime, and has the same or similar penalties attached as the creation of the forgery.

[Cboldt]

OK. Now I see the problem. We seem to have different beliefs in what constitutes 'Government'.

Well, we probably hold the same principles. But it is undeniable that there is a difference between the Federal Government, and the citizens that it works for. You and I can't grant broadcasting licenses, or patents, we can't arrest people, or incarcerate them, etc. So, there is a difference between defrauding the government (which in principle is getting over on all of the public), and defrauding a business entity.

CBS is supposed to use care so that it doesn't broacast propaganda based in fraud, but it didin't. Even if it hadn't crossed this line, a person would have to have a very closed mind to accept what CBS puts out as an accurate reflection of reality.

My reference to "fraud on CBS" was that if CBS paid money for the forgeries, on the pretext they were authentic, then CBS got taken. I don't think that reflects facts, I think CBS was suspicious, and ran it anyway, for whatever reasons and rationalization.

In an alternative scenario, CBS get documents, examines them, concludes they are forged, and never uses them. They know they received forgeries, but so what? Thy have a heads up that a certain source is not reliable.

[gonzofire]

Dan is sorry for poor judgement and for having been misled.
Am I missing the apology to the President somewhere in his so called apology?

[Pete]

and you reposted the complete text of the article of this thread because ....?

When I posted the complete text, the moderator had not yet updated the post to include the statement. I posted it as soon as it was released when this thread was just a headline.

[teeman8r]

i demand a recount >http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b1d07247bd8.htm<

perhaps dan should return his award...

teeman

[HAL9000]

The maker has to be under 30 years old so that he/she would not know that we have not always had Microsoft Word.

I'm not so sure about that. There are plenty of over-30 computer users who have no idea what a font is.