Posted on 08/23/2004 9:28:14 AM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Kerry has dug his own hole.
Let's fill it up with Kerry's OWN statements about Vietnam.
AND other statements about Kerry, by Kerry and interviews he gave.
And what his former shipmates on the USS GRIDLEY have said.
The only "guideline" is no mention of the Swift Boat Vets and what they say.
Did you see this from the Boston Globe:
The Kerry campaign removed a 20-page batch of documents yesterday from its website after The Boston Globe quoted a Navy officer who said the documents wrongly portrayed Kerry's service. Edward Peck had said he -- not Kerry -- was the skipper of Navy boat No. 94 at a time when the Kerry campaign website credited the senator with serving on the boat. The website had described Kerry's boat as being hit by rockets and said a crewmate was injured in an attack.
But Peck said those events happened when he was the skipper. The campaign did not respond to a request to explain why the records were removed.
Ooops... I didn't read the post! Sorry!
free dixie,sw
That would be the January batch of SITREPS (after action reports), which was removed after Kranish published a story that Kerry had taken credit for another boat commander's actions (Peck was the other commander).
The documents, and Kerry's website references expressly giving Kerry credit for the action, were removed in late April this year.
GRIDLEY Crew members (67-68) say Kerry exaggerated in TOUR OF DUTY
"...John Kerry and I were shipmates in the guided missile cruiser USS
Gridley (CG-21) in 1967 and 1968. He served as First Lieutenant, the
officer in charge of the deck division, and I was Executive Officer,
or second in command..."
"...But there is also no doubt in my mind that his anti-war
activities while our troops were still fighting, dying and being
tortured in filthy Vietnam prisons were despicable.
For that reason, even aside from his anti-defense voting record in
the Senate, he is one ex-shipmate that I could never support as
commander-in-chief of the armed forces."
J. F. Kelly, Jr.
USS Gridley (CG-21) Executive Officer in 1967 and 1968.
GRIDLEY Website page on John Kerry
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pwcarter/the%20kerry%20page.html
Other crew members speak about John Kerry
(Looks like Kerry's shipmates, who did serve with him,
say he lied and told whoopers about his time on the GRIDLEY.
Remember these are not Swift Boat Vets,
BUT Kerry's crewmates who served with him on the GRIDLEY)
Examples follow:
"As everyone must surely know by now, John F. Kerry came on board
GRIDLEY as a boot Ensign when we returned from our 1967 Westpac
Cruise. He remained on GRIDLEY through the 1968 cruise. Politics
aside, shipmates of the time who have read TOUR OF DUTY, the
authorized campaign biography, will have something to say about the
chapter on GRIDLEY. "
1. Kerry never talked about his time on GRIDLEY. He says on page
74 that it is because “nothing much of note” happened while
he was
onboard. He uses words like monotony and tedious, when, despite
being a boot ensign he was given every opportunity for responsibility
by Captain Slifer and Commander Kelly (XO). He came aboard
designated for Electrical Officer (80100), a grunt position in the
Engineering Department and spent four months in that position. He
was assigned duty as First Lieutenant, as Commander Kelly recalls,
because of his knowledge of seamanship and his experiences with small
boats and sailing. Besides being responsible for the decks of the
ship, the First Lieutenant is also responsible for the ship’s
small
boats. He also was assigned collateral duties as Public Affairs
Officer. Despite all the responsibilities he was given, he gives the
impression that serving on GRIDLEY was somehow beneath him. He
certainly had less of an opportunity to collect “gongs” there.
2. Page 78 – “motivate 400 swabbies” – The First
Lieutenant is
responsible only for the personnel of 1st Division, not the entire
crew. 1st Division had a roster of about 30 in 1968. To the extent
that other divisions had responsibility for deck space, their
officers would have been responsible for motivating them.
3. Page 87 has Kerry “shuttling sailors and provisions”
between
GRIDLEY and KITTY HAWK in a small motor whaleboat out in the Gulf of
Tonkin. The regular method of travel between the two ships was via
helo. That is how I went over to the KITTY HAWK. If such an event
did occur, it would have been unusual and hardly a shuttle.
4. Later on page 87 Kerry talks about Olongapo in the Philippines.
He talks about bloated corpses floating in the river and starving
women with babies dying of malnutrition. Now Olongapo was a wild and
wooly town that existed solely for the entertainment of the US Navy,
but in over three years of calling there, I never saw a single
instance of either thing happening. Kerry uncovered this in his
first visit. If this was from his letters home then he was certainly
writing for dramatic effect. Balderdash.
5. The trip to Danang – GRIDLEY went into Danang for briefings
before going to Northern SAR. This section is so full of hyperbole
that the urge to giggle is almost uncontrollable. “The panic and
pressure onboard GRIDLEY, strapping on a .45, wondering if I would
have to use it, B-52’s howling overhead”. A B-52 over Danang
would
have been so high that only contrails would have been visible, cloud
cover permitting. David Simons confirmed my recollection that during
our brief stay in Danang Harbor, the sky was overcast to the point of
being ominous.
More seriously, no one can remember John Kerry going ashore. I was
part of the shore party that went to Monkey Mountain. We were taken
in a screened in truck (to protect against grenades being tossed in)
and made to unload our .45’s. The driver said that he did not
want
us newbies to shoot anyone by accident.
Neither Commander Kelly nor LCDR Rueckert (Kerry’s immediate
boss)
can recall approving a trip ashore for Ensign Kerry. The author uses
remarks of David Simons IC2 as a lead in to the Danang section. I
spoke to David and he has no personal knowledge of Kerry going ashore
at all. He did talk to a researcher and made some generic remarks
about Danang but had never discussed Danang with Kerry. He recalls
arguing with the researcher because he tried to put the
words “cowboy” in his mouth, which ended up in the book.
There is no mystery about the “gruesome site of a pile of dead
VC.”
We saw no sign of anything like this. However, our escort to Monkey
Mountain did tell us how the VC bodies were stacked up on the
LZ’s
after the TET Offensive, which had been several months before.
Ensign Kerry would have been told this story by members of the shore
party.
If, indeed, he got to the pier, because he was in charge of the
motor whaleboat, it certainly would not have been within his purview
to wander Danang, eating dog meat and drinking beer in a bar (under
arms). It also seems amazing that he had all these observations on
Vietnam in such a brief visit.
6. In command – Again with the hyperbole. Kerry makes much
about
being “in charge” of the ship after the Captain and XO. The
OOD is
in charge of the operation of the ship during his four hour watch but
hardly in charge of the ship. Kerry qualified almost immediately as
OOD(P), in port OOD but that is a given. For much of his time
onboard he would have been Junior Officer of the Deck when underway.
Although his fitness report as of 22 March says "he is qualified as
OOD(I) now" (Independent steaming – with no ships or land
anywhere
near) , only OOD(P) is listed under duties. His Fitness Report from
July 1968 lists two months as OOD(I) which would mean he qualified
after leaving the war zone.
Based on what what he said to the SFRC in '71 ("... raped ... cut off ears ... taped wires ...) he is a war criminal if he's telling the truth, and a perjurer/traitor if he's lying.
This is a great idea!
The clip from the Boston Globe today says the documents were removed from the web pages yesterday. Are those the same documents that were actually removed in April and the Globe is wrong?
I am still waiting on the text version of Kerry's first book.
Mail runs about 1:30 pm and I meet the mailman.
Thanks for the ping!
Ok... how about including his statements from the 1971 debate against O'Neill?
Kerry's group VVAW members made propaganda tapes for Radio Hanoi.
http://www.aim.org/media_monitor_print/1497_0_2_0
So the oldspapers "yesterday" is only 4 months behind.
Kerry's VVAW blocked Commandant of the Marine Corps investiagtion of Winter Soldier
"...Sen. Mark Hatfield of Oregon entered the Winter Soldier transcripts into the Congressional Record
and asked the commandant of the Marine Corps for an investigation of the Marines that testified.
Investigators were unable to confirm or refute the claimed atrocities,
but identified one organizer (Al Hubbard) as never being in combat.
Guenter Lewy in America in Vietnam says
"The results of this investigation, carried out by the Naval Investigative Service
are interesting and revealing ... Many of the veterans, although assured that they
would not be questioned about atrocities they might have committed personally,
refused to be interviewed. One of the active members of the VVAW told investigators
that the leadership had directed the entire membership not to cooperate with military authorities ..."
The thread is mis-dated. Look close.
Gotcha. Thanks!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.