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Any pilots or people in the air force who care to comment?

Regards, Ivan


1 posted on 07/24/2004 3:49:56 AM PDT by MadIvan
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To: agrace; lightingguy; EggsAckley; dinasour; AngloSaxon; Dont Mention the War; KangarooJacqui; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 07/24/2004 3:50:24 AM PDT by MadIvan (Gothic. Freaky. Conservative. - http://www.rightgoths.com/)
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To: Conspiracy Guy; gatorbait
Thought this might be of interest to you two! :-)
3 posted on 07/24/2004 3:54:55 AM PDT by Happygal (Kerry has a chin that could chop cabbage in a glass!)
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To: KB4W

AF ping


4 posted on 07/24/2004 4:04:42 AM PDT by arbee4bush ( I expressed myself forcefully and felt better after I did it-VP Cheney)
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To: MadIvan

To summarize: The Air Force says the planes are fine, Lockheed says the planes are fine, the Pentagon's Office of Inspector General says the planes bite. This has the smell of either A) An interservice p*ssing contest that someone decided to fight in the media, B) Corruption within the Air Force and Lockheed, or C) Both. My money's on A.


5 posted on 07/24/2004 4:07:09 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (Am Yisrael Chai!)
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To: MadIvan

Not the Air Force's fault. THe C-130J purchase was ordered by Congress (Trent Lott, C-130J/Lockheed proponent) over the USAF's objections.

Three years ago, I attended a meeting with Lockheed discussing some features. I pointed out some program features that seemed insane from the government's viewpoint...asked some of the more experienced guys why it was structured that way.

They all agreed - it was done so Lockheed could soak the government. They also pointed out that Congress had structured the payments such that Lockheed had already received the bulk of the money - before delivering anything that came close to spec.

The USAF has done some stupid buying - but this debacle rests completely on COngress!


6 posted on 07/24/2004 4:11:29 AM PDT by Mr Rogers
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To: MadIvan
Diagnostic systems have a high rate of false positives, meaning maintenance crews spend a lot of time trying to repair components which aren't broken.

Not to put to fine of a point on this, but a false positive, is a broken component that isn't registering as bad. A false negative, is an indicator of a failure that isn't there.

8 posted on 07/24/2004 4:30:59 AM PDT by The_Victor
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To: MadIvan

"The military is buying the planes as a commercial item - a process designed to allow the military to purchase goods on the open market that need few modifications for military use.

That process gives the Air Force less oversight and fewer cost controls, the inspector general's report says. For example, the commercial contract means Lockheed Martin doesn't have to give the Air Force data on how much the planes actually cost, so the Air Force has no way to check the company's profit margins.

Sambur suggested the inspector general's office was biased against such commercial contracts, an accusation the office denied. The inspector general's office has been among critics of another Air Force plan to retrofit Boeing 767 jets for use as midair refueling planes."

This refers to COTS/NDI - Commercial Off The Shelf/Non-Developmental Items. In theory, it was supposed to be a way to save money by buying something that meets the USAF needs without our spending taxpayer money to develop it.

In reality, with the approval of Sambur, it means we commit to buying something the company promises will meet military needs. When test proves it does not, the military spends a ton of money and years of development trying to fix the shortfalls. Recent analysis indicates COTS items end up costing as much or more than developmental items - and that is because the acquisition weenies agree to accept something that is woefully inadequate at a "COTS" item.

On one program I worked - with Sambur's signature approving it as a Non-developmental Item - the USAF stopped counting how many sorties of development took place after the number passed the 200 mark. The item still hasn't been approved to start operational test.

When Sambur wants to know if something is working, he goes straight to the horse's mouth - he goes to the contractor and takes their word verbatim over the word of USAF test pilots and maintainers.

That, in my book, means he is either incredibly stupid or very corrupt.


9 posted on 07/24/2004 4:41:08 AM PDT by Mr Rogers
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To: MadIvan
Not a pilot, not Air Force.

Smells like pork-barrel to me.

Congressmen sometimes force buys on DOD so that industries in their home state will benefit. This is called "Bringing home the bacon."

FReegards, Ivan. We all missed you and are glad you are back home.

11 posted on 07/24/2004 4:45:57 AM PDT by LibKill (Uninspired Tagline)
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To: MadIvan

Is there a good reason why the average C130J should be equipped to fly into a hurricane?
Are there good reasons why pliots cannot plan missions without automated systems?
Are there good reasons for believing that pilots should not be re-trained to use new equipment?
Did the C130's of the Vietnam War have defensive equipment?
If they did not, and since the aircraft performed reasonably well during that conflict, is there a compelling reason to install expensive defensive equipment now?


15 posted on 07/24/2004 5:18:10 AM PDT by quadrant
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To: MadIvan
Yes.

As our traditional moral foundations are erased from the drawing board by the left wing thought police, so erased are good designs and good production systems ... replaced by a politically correct code of conduct that does not recognize the rule of law that is part of the laws of physics.

Worth science is being replaced by junk science, by order of the courts. That is capability is being exterminated and replaced by incapacity --- doing a good job is "unfair" to the "sensitivity" of societal engineers, and so their societal engineering is replacing quality engineering.

A manufactured part, according to socialism, must meet socialist job requirements before the part meets use requirements.

Yet, the socialist masters complain when things don't work right, and so a special "two-tiered" manufacturing system follows their needs; specialists beholden to the state, make for state officials, things that work, while the public tier suffers under the legendary socialism that occupies the minds of the public's managers.

The problem is showing up in medicine, at the public level, now.

Over the last five years, only one fourth of the usual number of applicants for practicing gastroenterology, apply. Gastroenterology is rejected because the "new" people want mone, and they do not want to be involved in medical practice that is "too technical" in the out-patient realm where their incompetence will show.

We are a nation suffering under the burden of almost everything being governed by the judiciary. The judiciary make the laws, no matter how quaint is the legislative process for traditional American tourists. Lawyers are running the show.

The courts' egos are destroying the noble motivations of ordinary people who once were free of the burden now imposed by the judiciary, and thus their personal initiative and honest interest in doing a good job, prevailed, and provided well enough.

The path to well-intentioned and well-made productivity, is being torn apart because it is part of the worthy American heritage that is the target of the socialists who churn for the lawyers greed.

When you drive down a thoroughfare, past the large buildings of manufacturing establishments, you may see their marques and company names on the face of their buidings and in the signs on their manicured lawns, but these symbols are mere frontispieces (sp?) for this law firm and that law firm.

Lawyers are running the show and the activity on the plant floor.

Lawyers enabled the path for the September 11, 2001 hijackings of airliners in the U.S.A.

Lawyers are wrecking nearly everything, and plenty of them are federally funded, so they do not have to answer to any private client who can stop the lawyer by cutting off their cash flow.

The government is regulating all kinds of productivity, but the government is not watching, nor is it regulating the lawyers' part in productivity.

Want to save your company and save the economy and save jobs? Fire the lawyers.

22 posted on 07/24/2004 6:13:06 AM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: MadIvan

Alot of this is invented. I guess the name of the paper could have something to do with it.


23 posted on 07/24/2004 6:14:02 AM PDT by e_castillo
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To: MadIvan
The C-130J ruined the best known, low cost, extremely rugged, front line cargo plane, for either Military or Commercial use. The older C-130 models were the bread and butter for the Lockheed Martin Corporation for 50 years. The C-130J will be the end of this once masterful and very successful cargo aircraft.

The cost of the C-130J is over 3 times the cost of the older version, with 1/3 the reliability of the older version. The Government and Lockheed Martin Corp. made a major mistake when they decided to tamper with to much in this latest upgrade package. The C-130J looks great on paper, but will never tolerate the wear and tear that the older models could. Lockheed Martin Corp. should have continued building the older versions with gradual improvements as in the past until a fully proven C-130J model could meet all required Mil. Specs. Presently Lockheed Martin Corp. is selling the Government a Cargo Plane that can no longer perform the older C-130 versions functions under any circumstances. Foreign Sales of the C-130 are next to zero due to the huge cost increase with no actual overall performance increase reflected in the increased cost.

The cost of spare parts on the older C-130 models has risen astronomically as production lines for the older model are shut down. The last Parking Brake cable that I requested a quote for was over $5,000.00, 6-7 years earlier the same cable sold for $500.00 - $1,100.00 each. I was hit with sticker shock and given no justification for the increase, except that production, must have played a part of it. Lockheed Martin Corp. is making a killing on both sides of this once great Cargo plane at the moment. This is a sad and sickening story of how the government and Industry can ruin a good thing sometimes.
32 posted on 07/24/2004 7:26:06 AM PDT by herkbird (Beware of what you want, it may not be what you expected)
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