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Former Abu Ghraib Commander Says She Met Israeli Interrogator in Iraq
Associated Press ^ | Jul 3, 2004

Posted on 07/03/2004 7:20:27 AM PDT by Brian Mosely

LONDON (AP) - The American general formerly in charge of Abu Ghraib prison says there are signs Israelis were involved in interrogating Iraqi detainees at another facility.

Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, who was suspended in May over allegations of prisoner abuse, said she met a man who told her he was Israeli during a visit to a Baghdad intelligence center with a senior coalition general.

"I saw an individual there that I hadn't had the opportunity to meet before, and I asked him what did he do there, was he an interpreter - he was clearly from the Middle East," Karpinski told British Broadcasting Corp. radio in an interview broadcast Saturday. "He said, 'Well I do some of the interrogation here. I speak Arabic but I'm not an Arab; I'm from Israel.'

"I was really kind of surprised by that ... He didn't elaborate any more than to say he was working with them and there were people from lots of different places that were involved in the operation," Karpinski added.

Israel's Foreign Ministry told the BBC that reports of Israeli troops or interrogators in Iraq were "completely untrue." Israeli officials could not immediately be reached by The Associated Press.

The U.S. military has used private contract workers in the interrogations along with military personnel.

The presence of Israeli forces in Iraq would inflame opinion in the Muslim world, where many compare the abuse of prisoners by U.S. forces to Israel's treatment of Palestinian detainees.

Until a 1999 ruling by the Israeli Supreme Court, Israeli secret service interrogators were allowed to use "moderate physical pressure" - a euphemism, critics said, for torture.

Among the practices allowed prior to 1999 were sleep deprivation, keeping prisoners in uncomfortable positions for long periods and covering their heads with filthy sacks. Former prisoners say some of those techniques also were used by U.S. forces in Iraq.

Karpinski was suspended from command of the 800th Military Police Brigade after the publication in April of photos showing soldiers abusing and humiliating naked Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib. She has said she did not know about the abuse and is being made a scapegoat in the scandal.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abughraib; bleedingheartattack; feminism; feminist; israel; israeli; janiskarpinski; karpinski; rumormill; womeninmilitary
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To: LoudRepublicangirl

karpinski is the reason women shouldn't be generals in combat zones. her whining is deafening, i didn't trust her when the story first surfaced.

she's respnsible for nothing. as another freeper said...STFU.


21 posted on 07/03/2004 8:22:30 AM PDT by contessa machiaveli
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To: Brian Mosely
She has said she did not know about the abuse and is being made a scapegoat in the scandal.

The General is responsible for the actions of her troops and if she wasn't aware of what was going on with her little band of pornographers and sex addicts running loose in the prison, then she has been ill-served by her subordinates and they should all be fired. Muddying the waters by insinuating that the Jews are to blame for the scandal is so Nazi-like. These yammering Clintonesque generals think nothing of putting America's foreign policy in jeopardy to save their own stinking hides.

22 posted on 07/03/2004 8:38:28 AM PDT by AF68
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To: Peach
The anti-Semites will be out in droves on this thread.

The Israeli's are so good at interrogations I'd welcome their involvement.

The general's not worried about this thread. She's trying to wave the red cape, in the hopes the charging bull goes for it instead.

Which is, of course, lowly, despicable, and a cheap ploy. There is no reason for her to be talking to the press, except to try and stir up public sympathy for herself, at the expense of the Army, the troops, and the dignity of her rank.

23 posted on 07/03/2004 8:44:13 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (Iran almost has nuclear weapons. They will get them unless we stop them.)
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To: contessa machiaveli
she's responsible for nothing. as another freeper said...STFU.

She really does need to take it like a man when it comes to her responsibility. If she wants the benefit of wearing that uniform she also has to bear the responsibilities as well.
24 posted on 07/03/2004 8:59:06 AM PDT by LoudRepublicangirl (loudrepublicangirl)
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To: LoudRepublicangirl
If she wants the benefit of wearing that uniform she also has to bear the responsibilities as well.

Did the oath she pledged when she joined the US Military mention anything about having an obligation to protect third country nationals?

If Israeli contractors participated in, or directed, any of these illegal interogations, do you wish to see them "take it like a man"?

If seniors at the Pentagon knowingly hired such poeple to lead these interogations of this nature, do you wish to see them "take it like men" too?

So many folks on this site supported these interrogation techniques, yet at the same time wish to have the book thrown at General K. for merely stating her experiences at the prison.

As so many supported the techniques (techniques the President felt obligated to apologize for), why would they be at all embarrassed about having the identities of all the particpants in the public record?
25 posted on 07/03/2004 9:25:56 AM PDT by mr.pink
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To: Brian Mosely

What a typical lefty play: Blame the Jooooos.


26 posted on 07/03/2004 9:27:40 AM PDT by LA Conservative (The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column)
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To: mr.pink

Her going on the talk show circuit did not elevate my respect for her. You can defend her all you want.


27 posted on 07/03/2004 9:30:45 AM PDT by LoudRepublicangirl (loudrepublicangirl)
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To: Brian Mosely
Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, who was suspended in May over allegations of prisoner abuse, said she met a man who told her he was Israeli (snip)

'I speak Arabic but I'm not an Arab; I'm from Israel.'

Depends what the definition of "from" is. From that conversation one could just as easily deduce the guy was a U.S. citizen born in Israel. Or a Frenchman, or anything, without more information.

28 posted on 07/03/2004 9:41:17 AM PDT by Leroy S. Mort
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To: mr.pink; Peach

Ah. The pink one. Altogether true prediction in #3, the resident joo-obsessives are already turning up.


29 posted on 07/03/2004 9:43:06 AM PDT by DonaldDuke (Spawn of Satan)
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To: Brian Mosely
Butch Karpinski needs to act even more like a man and take responsibility.
30 posted on 07/03/2004 9:43:12 AM PDT by fso301
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To: mr.pink
Did the oath she pledged when she joined the US Military mention anything about having an obligation to protect third country nationals?

Sure does. We can't leave wounded enemy on the battlefield, much less allies. If by 'protect' you mean 'not divulge classified informatin', then yes, that's true too. However, there is no indication that she's been covering for anyone. To hear her tell it, she didn't know anything anyway.

If Israeli contractors participated in, or directed, any of these illegal interogations, do you wish to see them "take it like a man"?

I expect her to STFU until the investigation runs its course. She's deliberately avoiding the procedures because she thinks she's in trouble, an option that people of lower rank do not have. This is a horrific breach of military discipline, and shows her deep disregard for the justice she'd expect others to stand to.

If seniors at the Pentagon knowingly hired such poeple to lead these interogations of this nature, do you wish to see them "take it like men" too?

After the investigation, we'll know for sure. If anything glaring is left out AFTER the investigatin, like the presence of Israel interrogators, then that would be a good time to bring it up. Doing it now is flat out inappropriate.

As so many supported the techniques (techniques the President felt obligated to apologize for),

There is nothing wrong with sleep dep or stress positions. Those are some of the most gentle physical interrogation methods around, and have been considered perfectly legal interrogator SOP for the last 50 years.

why would they be at all embarrassed about having the identities of all the particpants in the public record?

1 - It's not what she's saying, but how. By trying to circumvent the investigation, and appeal to the public, she's saying that she doesn't trust the military to give her justice. She's also saying it's better to damage the dignity of her rank, the reputation of her service, and credibility of the nation, than to take her chances in court. That's a message that a general has no business giving those below her.

2 - Many, many countries, on many, many different issues, agree to help us, in secret. The mere presence of an Israeli interrogator doesn't mean anything more than he was there. Unless you are under the impression that the Israelis routinely put underwear on the heads of leashed prisoners, I don't see what the point of mentioning them would be, other than to muddy the waters.

31 posted on 07/03/2004 10:01:58 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (Iran almost has nuclear weapons. They will get them unless we stop them.)
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To: Brian Mosely

Gee, is this the same Karpinski who won the Ice Skating Gold Medal at the Olympics a couple of years back?

Looks like she has fallen on hard times; stood much to close to an ugly stick?


32 posted on 07/03/2004 10:27:16 AM PDT by NutmegDevil
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To: DonaldDuke

LOL. That didn't take long.


33 posted on 07/03/2004 10:31:37 AM PDT by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Steel Wolf

there are a few other generals who have been excoriated ....they have taken responsibility and blamed no one but themselves, and most importantly kept their mouths closed. they are heros, karpinski is a take no responsibility cry baby.

she even had her priest write a letter in her favor after this hit the fan.

waaaa, waaaa, waaaaaa.


34 posted on 07/03/2004 11:24:49 AM PDT by contessa machiaveli
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To: Steel Wolf
I appreciate you response. You make some excellent points.

However your final points (1 & 2) I have some disagreements with, and I will reply to those later on.

Thanks.
35 posted on 07/03/2004 11:32:56 AM PDT by mr.pink
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To: Brian Mosely

Karpinski seems to be an instance of the Peter Principle, which involves promoting people beyond their levels of competence. Her level of competence seems to be somewhere around corporal, but she was promoted to Brigadier because, I assume, she's a woman. Sorry, but it's hard to think of any other possible reason.

She was almost sidelined earlier because her troops were out of control--living together, behaving insubordinately toward visiting officers, not properly dressed, and so forth. But she wasn't disciplined then because she's a woman.

This woman is going to make a lot of trouble before she leaves the scene. It's predictable. The press will butter her up and flatter her, and she'll give them plenty of quotes to run with. It just proves once again: Don't promote people to responsible positions if they can't do the job. Especially don't do it if the media are running around the edges of your administration looking for quislings, traitors, and useful idiots.


36 posted on 07/03/2004 12:34:21 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Brian Mosely

P.S. Whether or not the story is true, and I doubt that it is true, there are two really basic problems.

1. As a military officer, she is duty bound to obey orders and keep her trap shut.

2. Blabbing about stuff like this, whether or not it is true (and I don't think it is) seriously damages the war effort and our country. It gives the liars in the Arab press and excuse to say that Israeli monkeys and pigs are torturing Muslim prisoners. If fans hatred and vengeance. It's plain stupid.


37 posted on 07/03/2004 12:38:47 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Tijeras_Slim
She should be given a direct order that she is not to talk to the press except through a public affairs specialist. Violation of that order would bring charges and a court martial. It is a legal order if she is on active duty and she should be placed in an active duty status until this situation is resolved
38 posted on 07/03/2004 12:43:04 PM PDT by RedEyeJack
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To: Steel Wolf
There is nothing wrong with sleep dep or stress positions. Those are some of the most gentle physical interrogation methods around, and have been considered perfectly legal interrogator SOP for the last 50 years.

I'm confused. If a prisoner objects to sleep deprivation and "stress positions", and refuses to cooperate, resisting passively (simply slumping rather than standing as directed, closing his eyes), what measures are taken against him? Is pain inflicted upon the prisoner, or not?

39 posted on 07/03/2004 3:16:06 PM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: VeritatisSplendor

"...is pain inflicted upon the prisoner or not?"

Good heavens no! The prisoner knows his cause is lost. He is thankful to allah that he is still alive. The prisoner immediately tells the interrogators all they want to know, he co-operates, he is grateful for the three meals a day, the showers and the accommodation. And as long as he is asked ever so nicely ( not humiliated ) he will do all he can to assist the Coalition effort to establish democracy in Iraq. The prisoner knows Saddam was a mass murderer, a criminal. He wouldn't RESIST! Not even passively...

Pain you say? Would tickling with a feather be OK?


40 posted on 07/03/2004 5:10:56 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil. Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf. Click Fred Nerks for link.)
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