Senator Tells TSA: Arm Pilots or Lose Funding

Cybercast News Service. ^ | April 02, 2004 | Robert B. Bluey

[tcuoohjohn]

AHA!...The Cosmic Funnel of Death..I read this in DC comics many years back..

[Long Cut]

this is LONG overdue. I know many commercial pilots; all were initially excited about being able to protect their ships, but quickly lost enthusiasm when the TSA/BATFE types monkeyed the program.

For the doubters, let me post a few facts...

1. A bullet hole in a fuselage WILL NOT cause a crash, or even much trouble;

2. In response to those who cry that "the pilot should be flying the plane!!", at least one will be. You DID remember the copilot, DIDN'T YOU?!?;

3. A pilot with a gun will keep you safe by deterring terrorists. The prospect of a shootdown by a fighter does not; it accomplishes the terrorists' mission.

4. Since all passengers are disarmed at the airport, for God's sake shouldn't SOMEONE on the bird be?

[tcuoohjohn]

snip?

[tcuoohjohn]

Yes I do know it is possible. You don't do irony well do you? Pay close attention..I believe in an armed sky marshal on every flight. Not armed pilots. The average commericial pilot is as likely to shoot himself accidentally than kill a hijacker. Even military pilots only have small arms quals once in flight school and once in in E&E school. Most navy pilots will tell you 92F they carry is more useful cracking walnuts once you hit the ground than it is an effect defense.

[Long Cut]

Well, since we're never going to HAVE an armed sky marshall on every flight (and indeed their numbers were recently CUT), SOMEONE should be able to protect the airplane.

The notion that "they'll shoot themselves first" is nothing more than recycled antigun propaganda, which has been used (and debunked) for years.

The question I have is, why do you fear an armed pilot more than you fear a missile or a terr? A pilot of a commercial aircraft is FAR from some drunken gun-fondler, after all. Do you really believe they're that dumb?

Take a look around. MILLIONS of Americans have CCW licenses, myself and many here among them. yet, there is no surge in "accidental" self-shootings across the land. Why would a trained, disciplined, and intelligent person like a professional pilot be any different?

And why is it that those who fear an armed America ALWAYS trot out the same disproven irrational fears, time and again?

[P8riot]

the remote location of the program's single training facility in Artesia, N.M.

they just want to be sure that they are a safe distance from anyone so no one gets hurt < /sarcasm>

[NormsRevenge]

Norm Mineta, an old Lockheed exec who worked for the Clinton administration and has been nothing but a dismal failure. Why Bush retained him is beyond me.

Did you know pilots used to be armed or allowed to pack a weapon?

You have to figure if these guys were allowed to carry bombs and fly high peformance aircraft with nukes aboard their aircraft, and now are responsible for carrying passengers, that they would have already been pretty thouroughly screened and trained, huh?

Would it have made a difference on 9/11 if that were still the case? We will never know, and if another such instance were to happen, who would be at fault? You got it. Carryovers in sensitive positions are nothing but bites in the arse waiting to happen, imo.

New Tone.. patooie!

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Norm Mineta, an old Lockheed exec

I thought he was an old Congressman....you would think he had commonsense since he had been an exec, but it doesn't seem so!

[NormsRevenge]

Home > About DOT / Biographies of Key Officials / Norman Y. Mineta

Norman Y. Mineta
SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION

Norman Y. Mineta became the 14th U.S. Secretary of Transportation on January 25, 2001.

In nominating him, President Bush said, &#8220;Norm made a reputation in the halls of Congress as someone who understands that a sound infrastructure in America will lead to economic opportunity for all Americans.&#8221;

&#8220;Transportation is key to generating and enabling economic growth, determining the patterns of that growth, and determining the competitiveness of our businesses in the world economy,&#8221; said Secretary Mineta. &#8220;Transportation is thus key to both our economic success and to our quality of life.&#8221;

As Secretary of Transportation, Mineta oversees an agency with 60,000 employees and a $56.3 billion budget. Created in 1967, the U.S. Department of Transportation brought under one umbrella air, maritime and surface transportation missions.

The U.S. transportation system includes 3.9 million miles of public roads and 2 million miles of oil and natural gas pipelines. There are networks consisting of 120,000 miles of major railroads, more than 25,000 miles of commercially navigable waterways and more than 5,000 public-use airports. The transportation system also includes more than 500 major urban public transit operators and more than 300 ports on the coasts, Great Lakes and inland waterways.

In response to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Secretary Mineta oversaw the creation of the Transportation Security Administration, an agency of more than 60,000 employees that is truly fulfilling its goal of protecting Americans as they travel across our country. Starting from a blank sheet of paper on Nov. 19, 2001, Secretary Mineta led a team that met 36 mandates set down by Congress &#8211; including screening all passengers by the TSA&#8217;s first anniversary and all baggage by Dec. 31, 2003 &#8211; while developing a fully functioning agency that restored air travelers&#8217; confidence in aviation security following the terrorist attacks. The Transportation Security Administration was transferred to the Department of Homeland Security on March 1, 2003.

Secretary Mineta also oversaw the Coast Guard&#8217;s response to the terrorist attacks, including developing the Sea Marshal Program, Maritime Safety and Security Teams, and expanding the number and mission of Coast Guard Port Security Units.

Prior to joining President Bush&#8217;s administration as Secretary of Transportation, Mineta served as U.S. Secretary of Commerce under President Clinton, becoming the first Asian Pacific American to serve in the cabinet. He is the first Secretary of Transportation to have previously served in a cabinet position. Prior to joining the Commerce Department, he was a vice president at Lockheed Martin Corporation.

From 1975 to 1995, he served as a member of U.S. House of Representatives, representing the heart of California&#8217;s Silicon Valley. As a member of Congress, Mineta was known for his dedication to the people of his district, for consensus building among his colleagues and for forging public-private partnerships. Mineta's legislative and policy agenda was wide and varied, including major projects in the areas of economic development, science and technology policy, trade, transportation, the environment, intelligence, the budget and civil rights. He co-founded the Congressional Asian Pacific American Caucus and served as its first chair.

Mineta served as chairman of the House Public Works and Transportation Committee between 1992 and 1994. He chaired the committee&#8217;s aviation subcommittee between 1981 and 1988, and chaired its Surface Transportation Subcommittee from 1989 to 1991. During his career in Congress he championed increases in investment for transportation infrastructure, and was a key author of the landmark Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991, which shifted decisions on highway and mass transit planning to state and local governments. ISTEA led to major upsurges in mass transit ridership and more environmentally friendly transportation projects, such as bicycle paths. He also pressed for more funding for the department&#8217;s Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).

After leaving the Congress, Mineta chaired the National Civil Aviation Review Commission, which in 1997 issued recommendations on reducing traffic congestion and reducing the aviation accident rate. Many of the commission&#8217;s recommendations were adopted by the Clinton administration, including reform of the FAA to enable it to perform more like a business.

Mineta and his family were among the 120,000 Americans of Japanese ancestry forced from their homes and into internment camps during World War II. After graduating from the University of California at Berkeley, Mineta joined the Army in 1953 and served as an intelligence officer in Japan and Korea. He joined his father in the Mineta Insurance Agency before entering politics in San Jose, serving as a member of its City Council from 1967 to 1971 and mayor from 1971 to 1974, becoming the first Asian Pacific American mayor of a major U.S. city. As mayor, he favored greater control of transportation decisions by local government, a position he later championed in ISTEA.

While in Congress, Mineta was the driving force behind passage of H.R. 442, the Civil Liberties Act of 1988, which officially apologized for and redressed the injustices endured by Japanese Americans during the War. In 1995, George Washington University awarded the Martin Luther King, Jr. Commemorative Medal to Mineta for his contributions to the field of civil rights. In 2003, Secretary Mineta received the Panetta Institutes&#8217;s Jefferson-Lincoln Award for his bipartisan leadership in addressing the nation&#8217;s challenges and was selected by the Council of Excellence in Government to receive the Elliot L. Richardson Prize for Excellence & Integrity in Public Service.

Mineta is married to Danealia (Deni) Mineta. He has two sons, David and Stuart Mineta, and two stepsons, Robert and Mark Brantner.

[NormsRevenge]

My wife and I were flying out of Mineta San Jose Int'l Airport a couple of years ago and he and Qwazy n'Fuming and him were at the gate , smoozing in the crowd.

My wife had met him at Lockheed. I personally have never shook his hand not talked with him.

btw.. I got a automated call from another member of the Asian Pacific caucus, Mike Honda from San Jose inviting me to an event April 7th to hear about and ask uestions about the Medicare prescriptions legislation. At first thought, I say No way.. But maybe I should go with a FRee Republic Press Pass or sign or banner, ;-).. Wanna bet I don;t get to ask any questions? lol

[xone]

'Most navy pilots will tell you 92F they carry is more useful cracking walnuts once you hit the ground than it is an effect defense.'

Two things:
1. That's probably because squids don't shoot enough.
2. 92F is a 9mm. Not what they would have to carry as a civilian.

Oh wait 3 things...3. Don't be such a p$$sy.

[neverdem]

Thanks for the bio. I only remembered him as a congressman.

[Jotmo]

You seem to place a lot of faith in the assumption that once a determined attacker has "puked", he will then be helpless and ready to surrender his life to an angry mob of passengers. Who, of course will be puking just as much as the attacker, and by your reasoning, just as helpless as him. So who he's going to surrender to is a mystery.

The pilot? Who will then have to leave the cockpit to perform the "arrest", thus leaving the controls, and with them his ability to subdue the perp by baning him off the ceiling. I suppose the other pilot could just do it, but he would then be "subduing" the other pilot who went back to accept the guys "surrender" thus leaving the aircraft with ONE pilot and once again, no one for the terrorist to surrender to.

Spend a lot of time thinking this one through, did you?

[USNBandit]

Additionally, Navy pilots are armed with SIGs not Berettas.

[xone]

Figures, the Beretta is what the poor of the Navy, the Corps, gets stuck with. Good for the USN in sacking up for the better weapon. Still bet they don't shoot them enough.

[tcuoohjohn]

Silly response. A Skilled pilot can do pos 3g and neg 3g maneuvers and maintain a heading. He can do it all the way to final. He can do a short 60 second final on turn and have it on the deck before anyone stops puking. They will still be puking 5 mins after he is in cuffs or dead.

Armed pilots is a dumb idea. Armed sky marshals make sense. Pilots fly..sky marshals take care of hijackers. The pilot should never leave the cockpit barring mechanical problems with the aircraft and taking a whiz.

[Jotmo]

It was intended to be silly. You didn't think I was actually taking you seriously, did you?

Silly ideas require a silly response.

[neverdem]

The pilot should never leave the cockpit barring mechanical problems with the aircraft and taking a whiz.

Do you believe anyone on this thread is advocating that the pilot should leave the controls and go into the passenger cabin to engage one or more hijackers?

[Squantos]

The range in NM where these pile-it's are required to wander off to on their own dime and time to get "trained" also drags it's feet but does so in an "offical capacity".........sanctioned bunch of contractor slackers tasked to micro-manage and do every damn thing in their power to subvert the program.

Stay safe & drive !

[archy]

Arming pilots is a stupid idea. The point about controlling an aircrat is to keep hijackers away from those who control the aircraft. A shootout at 34,000 feet between hijackers and pilots is just plain stupid.

Generally, the aircraft Captain in a fixed-wing aircraft sits in the port side seat, the same side as the driver's position on most automobiles. That means that if he's righthanded, he's at a considerable disadvantage with a weapon in his right hand trying to deal with a threat from behind in the space between the Captain's position and that of the First Officer alongside.

A better idea: have the Captain maintain control of the aircraft, while the First Officer attends to any details of tasks involving repelling boaredsers. In practice, I expect most pilots with a solid background in cockpit management have already considered the best procedures in their aircraft type and configuration, and have at least tentative procedures already in place.

A skilled pilot can do manuevers that would bounce hijackers off the overhead and reduce them to do nothing but puking their guts out. A 757 is stressed to 5.5 positive G's and 3.5 negative G's. Let pilots do what they do best. Fly. After 15 minutes of zero g parabola's with alternate pos G and neg G maneuvers a would be hijacker would be awash in a sea of puke and would beg to land.

Not to mention the effect on any passengers with cardiac problems or ulcers, or many newborns or handicapped pax. I can hear the lawyers salivating now.