Gibson's passion film 'too Catholic'

Belfast Telegraph ^ | 19 March 2004 | Alf McCreary

[dangus]

>> Rome should be glad Mel didn't present their doctrine of the Eucharist in all it's splendor. <<

Let you in on a little secret: He did. Just you gotta be REEAAAL Catholic to recognize it.

(OK, THIS is only joking: For a second there, I though he was gonna show the handshake!)

[Fury]

Why do you feel that it is necessary to say something like this?

That's the MO of Havoc. When asked to cite something from Scripture, more often than not he either makes it up, leaves something out, and if all else fails, claims he's being picked on.

[Cronos]

I'm a staunch Protestant and thought that the movie was wonderful. This review presents a very tiny minority opinion.

Thank you!

[dangus]

>.No, the dead's fate is sealed. Either they believed and accepted the truth or they rejected it and no amount of praying that I do can change that. <<

That is true. All those in purgatory will make it to heaven. Praying for the damned is futile; praying for those who are already purified is useless.

[dangus]

>>As we are instructed to NOT DO... in OT and NT...<<
Please provide a reference? And no, consulting mediums, as Samuel did, is not praying for the departed. And neither is worshipping ancestors.

[dangus]

>>Jesus has two natures. The one that had a mother isn't God. The one that is, didn't. <<

COme on, now, think... "That the mother of my LORD should come to me?" DO you really think Elizabeth was a servant on Jesus' plantation? The Greek NT records her using the same word that the Greek OT uses for God. She probably even said "Adonai" in Aramaic/Hebrew. She wasn't calling Jesus her lord in the Earthy sense, she was calling Jesus GOD! And she called Mary the mother of him.

[Cronos]

Whenever I have a religious discussion with my hard core Protestant friends, they always seem fixated on
1. Purgatory
2. The legitimacy of the Pope
3. Veneration of Mary (and saints).

Hmmm...

1. Purgatory was the Christian way of trying to reconcile a loving God with the reality that we are all sinners.  It's like a place where we can prepare further before moving to heaven.  Those who have truly lead Godly lives are pure enough to go through, the others need to prepare a little.  Christ's death made it possible for us to go through that door to heaven, we just need to work at it.
2. The church needed and needs a proper orgnisation or else it falls aside as happened to the churchs that fell under slamic rule.  The Papacy provided a focal point for christendom (the precursor of Western civilisation).  That's the non-spiritual reason.
3. Heroes of the faith -- the saints.

[MainFrame65]

All right, I'm just a confused Jew who has experienced this movie, so maybe one of you protestants out there can straighten me out.

Exactly what was so exclusively catholic about Gibson's portrayal of Mary? True, she was a strong presence throughout most of the film, but only in her grief, contrasted with the few flashbacks to happier times. What I saw was a woman watching her son being beaten, humiliated, and tortured to death, without any intervention from G_d except in her prayers. All I saw was love and humanity, without embellishment.

Did I miss something?

[presidio9]

No chip on my shoulder, thanks. Are you saying there is no praying to the dead in the Bible? If not, why are you asking for a referrence? If your interest is one of academic curiosity, I suggest The Catholic Encyclopedia as a good starting point. Good luck!

[Havoc]

When the pope puts his soul in Mary's hands and beseaches her to secure for him his salvation. That's blasphemy. It makes a point. This is not the type of thing that made it into Mel's movie. So I think it goes overboard to say it's "too catholic". I was actually bracing myself to see that sort of thing show up. I'm glad it did not or I'd have asked for my money back.

[Cronos]

If anything, the history of the various Protestant sects is a compelling case in support of the legitimacy of the Pope and the role of Sacred Tradition in Christianity. If we rely entirely on Sacred Scripture for guidance, we end up in a situations where moral chaos results from the inherent limitations of a document that is 2000 years old -- specifically with regard to moral questions that weren't addressed in Scripture because they weren't relevant at the time (abortion, embryonic stem cell research, cloning, etc.). The fat that you even have multiple Protestant sects (and even additional divisions within them) ought to tell us something.

I do agree with you -- a keeper of the faith.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

It's not a film about Catholicism, Alf old boy. It's a film about Christianity.

Boob.

[Cronos]

True. And the conflict in Northern Ireland is fundamentally ethnic in nature, not religous.

The Catholics are mostly Irish and the Protestants are Scottish, but both are Celts.

[Cronos]

ala the Pope's blasphemous prayers that I've heard quoted

What are you talking about???

[oyez]

Too (C)atholic, not too (c)atholic.

[Cronos]

That allows the Catholics to pray to (and even "worship") Mary

We do NOT worship or pray to Mary.

[Cronos]

We have ONE creed which states that we believe in ONE God and we believe that Mary was a created human being, not divine. If you say that Catholics to pray to (and even "worship") Mary you have been misled.

[NYer]

Wallace Thompson, secretary of the Evangelical Protestant Society, said the film displayed "an un-Biblical fixation on Mary, the mother of Jesus.

Excuse me, Mr. Thompson, Mary is the
Mother of God
The Tabernacle of The Word
Dwelling Place for God
... and hundreds more titles.

Catholic Ping - let me know if you want on/off this list

[Cronos]

Also, it shows Mary suffering with Jesus

Wouldn't any mother suffer when she saw the agony inflicted on her only son?

[presidio9]

When the pope puts his soul in Mary's hands and beseaches her to secure for him his salvation. That's blasphemy.

I'm not sure what specific event you are referring to (I'm guessing Fatima), but if you think that's what the Pope was doing I'm embarassed for you.