Can the dems pull off another "Torricelli"???

3/19/04 | GeorgeW23225

[GeorgeW23225]

While I am delighted with the recent polls that show Kerry is sinking faster than the Titanic, I worry about one thing. Even though he has the delegates needed to secure the nomination, does anyone know if these delegates are "legally" bound to vote for Kerry, or, can the dems pull off another "Torricelli" and nominate another candidate at their convention ??? If Kerry is "dead in the water" by the time the dems have their convention, I fear that they will nominate someone else, throwing the entire nominating process into chaos, as Hillary rides in on her white horse (Janet Reno) to save the party. Possible ?? Will it work ?? Is it legal ?? Or is this a scenario we should all pray for to happen ??

I just don't trust these people.......I'm afraid that they are so power hungry, that they will try ANYTHING to win.

What do you think ?? Anyone have any answers ?? Opinions ??

[EggsAckley]

I don't know the answer to the legality of it, but I can understand your concern. I too am concerned about this. But I just have a deep feeling that even if Hillary makes a jump for it, she would lose miserably. If Kerry gets yanked out, the Dem party will be shamed even more than they are now.

[HitmanLV]

Well I dont think it would actually be a 'Torecelli.' The convention is for the specific purpose of coming up with a ticket.

Kerry can back down from the nomination for any reason, and they would have to selected candidates. The whole thing would look better if it was Kerry who at least publically decided to step down, before the convention.

A 'Toricelli' would be if they wanted to get a new candidate sometime after the convention.

I can see them doing either, frankly, but I don't expect it. If anything, it really shows contempt for the primary process and all the dem voters who voted.

[Caipirabob]

My bet was that some time before the convention, Hillary will be selected as the VP candidate. Shortly after the CFR ad limit goes into effect before the election, inexplicably, John F'n Kerry goes on "The Small, Frail Aircraft Tour" and Hillary ends up as the candidate just before the election.

John F'n Kerry - The Small, Frail Aircraft Tour 2004

[don'tbedenied]

I think this fear has been in W camp. The farther down the road we get the less likely the switch is. Kerry will fight to keep the nomination, so any D coup will have to succeed or the insurgent's leader will be blamed for the electoral loss to Bush.

[thoughtomator]

Their plan is for Hitlery to become President before any court has the chance to rule on the legality of her last-minute appointment to the nomination. Then once she's President, she can abuse the powers of that office to ensure that the issue never sees the light of day.

Been through 8 years of those two... I swear, I could be their campaign chair, I know their M.O. so well.

[onedoug]

So what?

[magua]

right, and the horse she came in on.

[rrrod]

hmmmmmmm points to ponder...wonder about edwards?

[NonValueAdded]

I believe the super delegates are not bound but that some states require their delegates to honor the popular vote in their first ballot. I also believe there were stories that Kerry has secured enough committed votes to win on the first ballot. However, it's not just a walk in the park for JFK - (there is your first scenario). Conceivably he could release his delegates by withdrawing prior to the vote. He could also decline the nomination right then and there allowing the convention to make another choice. Reasons of health are the easiest reason to offer for backing out.

[gdani]

If I remember correctly, delagates are not bound by law (or anything similar) to actually vote for "their" candidate.

Unless something major happens during his campaign, Kerry will be the nominee -- baggage and all. Many people will vote for him not because he's Kerry but because he's "Anybody But Bush" - the left's rallying cry.

Anyways, be patient. It's only March. We're still months away from the conventions, debates, etc -- a lifetime in a presidential race.

[HEY4QDEMS]

Only un-pledged (super) delegates can vote for whomever they choose, pledged delegates are tied to the primaries and caucuses.

Right now, Kerry has more than enough overall delegates, about 2400, (he needs 2162), over 2000 of those are pledged to him.

By the time the DC opens in Boston, Kerry will have so many pledged votes, the super delegates will be moot.

[Paleo Conservative]

If Kerry is "dead in the water" by the time the dems have their convention, I fear that they will nominate someone else, throwing the entire nominating process into chaos, as Hillary rides in on her white horse (Janet Reno) to save the party. Possible?

Kerry is not the official nominee till the convention. I'm not a fan of the presidential primary process. I'd like to see a political party deemphasize them.

[dawn53]

But was it Russert or Matthews who when asked if Hillary could be elected in 2004 replied, "Not as long as we have secret ballot", LOL.

[Trust but Verify]

This possibility has entered my mind several times lately. You can never put anything past these people. Rules, laws, precedent. Nothing will get in the way of them doing what they think they need to do to win. Nothing.

To quote John F'n Kerry, "This is the most crooked bunch of liars I've ever seen"

[sportscaster]

This has been my thought from the start.The queen got a complete non-vetted new york senate campaign.It is not possible when running for president that no one digs in the clintoon closet.So skipping the campaign is her ONLY chance to ever get close to the white house unless she runs as V-P and something happens to the president.

I haven't heard any mention of kerry's cancer in the media.Quite odd when you recall all the furor over "can cheney run for the second spot on the ticket because he had a heart attack."

[Publius]

I fully expect them to pull a Torricelli. Kerry is a lemon, and you can just smell the buyer's remorse in the air. Eventually the Men in Gray Suits in the DNC will make a decision.

But they won't make that call on their own. As Kerry begins to self-destruct, Hillary's minions in the press will begin a call for the convention to draft Hillary for president. Hillary will remain mum and above the fray while her minions do the dirty work of bringing Kerry down. When the Men in Gray Suits visit Kerry and give him the bad news, he'll stand down his candidacy.

At this point, excitement will grip the nation. There hasn't been an open convention in over 50 years, and it will be magnificent political theater. Hillary's minions will let the Democratic Party yearn for her. (Indeed, they will say, the whole earth yearns for her.) Hillary will remain above the fray, letting the first two ballots produce the required chaos. Before the third ballot, her name will be placed in nomination, and she will get the nomination on that ballot. Wesley Clark will become her VP to give her ticket the military background necessary.

But if any one thing goes wrong with this scenario, it all blows up. Hillary is the only one who can pull it off. If she messes up Kerry's withdrawal and her subsequent candidacy, the Democratic Convention in Boston will echo the Chicago convention in 1968, but this time the violence will be on the convention floor, not the street. And when it's over the Democratic Party will splinter.

[Alberta's Child]

There was an aspect of the 2000 debacle that few people ever really considered, yet it was probably the most relevant point in the whole affair.

If Florida's electoral votes had not been certified by the December 13th deadline, none of that state's electoral votes would have been cast in the Electoral College. Al Gore would have "won" the electoral vote by a 267-246 margin, but that would not have been enough to make him President of the United States. The U.S. Constitution requires a candidate to get a majority of the electoral votes at stake, so in the event of a contested election like that the President would have been elected in the House of Representatives.

If the Democratic Party were to pull off the same kind of nonsense this year that they did in New Jersey in 2002, I would hope that the Republican Party would tie up every single state election certification process so that neither candidate can get 270 electoral votes and the election ends up being decided in the House of Representatives.

On a separate note, you have to keep in mind that individual states have their own ballot deadlines -- so the notion that someone would be able to get on ballots in even a majority of the states so late in the game seems pretty remote.

[blanknoone]

legally?

That hasn't been an issue with Democrats since they gave up the states rights arguement to support their Jim Crow laws. They will do whatever they want, and ensure that the issue goes before a VERY friendly lib court.

Anything goes before the convention. After the convention, they will switch candidates if she thinks she can win.