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'Gay marriage' confusions
TownHall.com ^ | Tuesday, March 9, 2004 | Thomas Sowell

Posted on 03/08/2004 9:58:48 PM PST by JohnHuang2

Few issues have produced as much confused thinking as the "gay marriage" issue.

There is, for example, the argument that the government has no business getting involved with marriage in the first place. That is a personal relation, the argument goes.

Love affairs are personal relations. Marriage is a legal relation. To say that government should not get involved in legal relations is to say that government has no business governing.

Homosexuals were on their strongest ground when they said that what happens between "consenting adults" in private is none of the government's business. But now gay activists are taking the opposite view, that it is government's business -- and that government has an obligation to give its approval.

Then there are the strained analogies with the civil rights struggles of the 1960s. Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King challenged the racial laws of their time. So, the argument goes, what is wrong with Massachusetts judges and the mayor of San Francisco challenging laws that they consider unjust today?

First of all, Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King were private citizens and they did not put themselves above the law. On the contrary, they submitted to arrest in order to gain the public support needed to change the laws.

As private citizens, neither Mrs. Parks nor Dr. King wielded the power of government. Their situation was very different from that of public officials who use the power delegated to them through the framework of law to betray that framework itself, which they swore to uphold as a condition of receiving their power.

The real analogy would be to Governor George Wallace, who defied the law by trying to prevent black students from being enrolled in the University of Alabama under a court order.

After Wallace was no longer governor, he was within his rights to argue for racial segregation, just as civil rights leaders argued against it. But, using the powers of his office as governor to defy the law was a violation of his oath.

If judges of the Massachusetts Supreme Court or the mayor of San Francisco want to resign their jobs and start advocating gay marriage, they have every right to do so. But that is wholly different from using the authority delegated to them under the law to subvert the law.

Gay rights activists argue that activist judges have overturned unjust laws in the past and that society is better off for it. The argument that some good has come from some unlawful acts in the past is hardly a basis for accepting unlawful acts in general.

If you only want to accept particular unlawful acts that you agree with, then of course others will have other unlawful acts that they agree with. Considering how many different groups have how many different sets of values, that road leads to anarchy.

Have we not seen enough anarchy in Haiti, Rwanda and other places to know not to go there?

The last refuge of the gay marriage advocates is that this is an issue of equal rights. But marriage is not an individual right. Otherwise, why limit marriage to unions of two people instead of three or four or five? Why limit it to adult humans, if some want to be united with others of various ages, sexes and species?

Marriage is a social contract because the issues involved go beyond the particular individuals. Unions of a man and a woman produce the future generations on whom the fate of the whole society depends. Society has something to say about that.

Even at the individual level, men and women have different circumstances, if only from the fact that women have babies and men do not. These and other asymmetries in the positions of women and men justify long-term legal arrangements to enable society to keep this asymmetrical relationship viable -- for society's sake.

Neither of these considerations applies to unions where the people are of the same sex.

Centuries of experience in trying to cope with the asymmetries of marriage have built up a large body of laws and practices geared to that particular legal relationship. To then transfer all of that to another relationship that was not contemplated when these laws were passed is to make rhetoric more important than reality.


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: civilunion; homosexualagenda; marriage; marriagecivilunion; prisoners; samesexmarriage; thomassowell
Tuesday, March 9, 2004

Quote of the Day by jigsaw

1 posted on 03/08/2004 9:58:48 PM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: JohnHuang2
Homosexuals were on their strongest ground when they said that what happens between "consenting adults" in private is none of the government's business. But now gay activists are taking the opposite view, that it is government's business -- and that government has an obligation to give its approval.

* *** ***

accurate.
2 posted on 03/08/2004 10:30:42 PM PST by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: JohnHuang2
Centuries of experience in trying to cope with the asymmetries of marriage have built up a large body of laws and practices geared to that particular legal relationship. To then transfer all of that to another relationship that was not contemplated when these laws were passed is to make rhetoric more important than reality.

That's the problem with radicals and - to borrow another Sowell phrase - "unconstrained vision" types. They attempt to implement their own pure vision on society. History, tradition, and compromise are ignored. It is perhaps the most arrogant perspective one can have, and a positive danger when applied to politics in general, and social engineering in particular.

So now we have people running around, on both the political right and left, spouting off about how marriage is none of the government's business. How church and state are separate, so we can have two different kinds of marriage. That marriage is really about love, and it's silly to endorse one kind and not another.

A good conservative perspective would be to weigh all these arguments, debate them, research some of the claims in terms of history and tradition, and ultimately to see if there is any validity. All of this before taking any political action.

The unconstrained vision types want to pass sweeping laws now. While the emotion is hot. While we're in the wild claims stage, rather than the researched and understood phase.

Whether you're pro or con gay marriage at the moment, you're no conservative if you want to proceed like that.

3 posted on 03/09/2004 8:00:38 AM PST by Snuffington
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To: little jeremiah
Ping!
4 posted on 03/09/2004 10:10:28 AM PST by NYer (Ad Jesum per Mariam)
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To: JohnHuang2
At least John Kerry has determined what his definition marrige is:

He believes that a marriage should be between one gigolo and one extremely wealthy woman. At least until a much wealthier woman becomes available.
5 posted on 03/09/2004 10:21:27 AM PST by F.J. Mitchell (The Dimocrat's only remaining John, is overflowing and stinking up this campaign.)
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To: *Homosexual Agenda; EdReform; scripter; GrandMoM; backhoe; Yehuda; Clint N. Suhks; saradippity; ...
Homosexual Agenda Ping -

I'm almost back on the job, pinging some pings at ya'll!

(Anyone wanting on/off this busy ping list, let me know.)
6 posted on 03/09/2004 1:38:47 PM PST by little jeremiah (...men of intemperate minds can not be free. Their passions forge their fetters.)
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To: little jeremiah
Dr. Sowell is one of the best writers- and thinkers- that I have encountered. I wish he would appear more on TV to educate Americans.
7 posted on 03/09/2004 1:58:52 PM PST by backhoe (Just an old Keyboard Cowboy, ridin' the TrackBall into the Sunset...)
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To: JohnHuang2
Soon, I suppose Jay Leno will be showing gay wedding announcements in the newspaper... 'Toogood - Peters' , 'Hershey - Packer', etc.
8 posted on 03/09/2004 2:03:02 PM PST by Sloth (We cannot defeat foreign enemies of the Constitution if we yield to the domestic ones.)
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To: little jeremiah
Bump


What We Can Do To Help Defeat the "Gay" Agenda


Homosexual Agenda: Categorical Index of Links (Version 1.1)


The Stamp of Normality

9 posted on 03/09/2004 2:04:57 PM PST by EdReform (Support Free Republic - All donations are greatly appreciated. Thank you for your support!)
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To: JohnHuang2
Finally, some light on this issue. I've heard enough of the silly libertarian arguments, even some with a religous spin, like this:

"Up until the late 19th century, the state had nothing to do with marriage. People got married in the church. When the state government started to get involved in marriage, they actually put strange and stringent restrictions on it and forgot its initial purpose — which was a union that only existed in the eyes of God. Now, the state is trying to rewrite this God-ordained institution with a plethora of perverse marriages, which will soon open the door to polygamy and more extreme perversity.

"No matter what the state does, however, real marriage is only within the church. Other cultures embrace homosexuality, polygamy, and even child marriages, but marriage, as most people think about it in the United States today, is ordained by Christ.

"As C.S. Lewis pointed out, for these other people it doesn't matter if they're married because true marriage is a covenant ordained by God. Whether the state issues a piece of paper or not, this does not effect the sacrament of marriage — only God does that as an outward and visible sign of an inner and spiritual grace. Without that grace, state-ordained unions are doomed to emptiness and despair, and are a farce."

(evangelical Christian movie critic) — Ted Baehr, writing on "Hallowed Ground," Friday in Assist News at www.assistnews.net

Even though Baehr is a Protestant, this is a nice Catholic summation of the problem (and logically, since marriage as "only existing in the sight of God" and "real marriage is only within the church" would mean the marriages of anyone outside of your own church are illegitimate, fornication...and illegal....)

Apparently, inheritance, divorce settlement, adoption, and other longstanding, even ancient, (state) government legal issues are to be dropped by law too.

Listen to Dr. Sowell folks! We can't let the homosexuals divide and conquer.
10 posted on 03/09/2004 2:17:02 PM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: little jeremiah
Love affairs are personal relations. Marriage is a legal relation. To say that government should not get involved in legal relations is to say that government has no business governing.

That's libertarianism!

11 posted on 03/09/2004 6:25:10 PM PST by mrustow
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To: Snuffington
That's the problem with radicals and - to borrow another Sowell phrase - "unconstrained vision" types. They attempt to implement their own pure vision on society.

It's not a pure vision -- it's power politics. There is no unconstrained vision. It exists only as an abstract notion. I read Sowell's book, too, but I no longer buy the notion of the conflict as being between a "constrained" and an "unconstrained" vision. I think the conflict of visions is a good teaching tool, but I also believe you must go beyond it, to show how the people who hide behind the facade of the unconstrained vision are really proponents of the rawest power politics.

12 posted on 03/09/2004 6:32:24 PM PST by mrustow
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To: mrustow
Libertarianism is a philosophy that appeals to people with the emotional maturity of adolescents, as far as I can tell. It reminds me of a Calvin and Hobbes comic strip - "If everything was completely different, then it would be cool!" (regarding school). Right, if human nature was completely altered, if the laws of nature were repealed, then libertarianism might work.
13 posted on 03/09/2004 8:41:49 PM PST by little jeremiah (...men of intemperate minds can not be free. Their passions forge their fetters.)
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