Cops accidentally kill 300 citizens annually

Here lie the casualties of an epidemic that has been increasingly gripping American cities since the early part of 1990:

·Steven Curry, 21, shot and killed by an off-duty Chicago police officer, Nov. 25, 2003.

·Michael L. Jacobs, 37, shot and killed by a Shreveport, La. police officer, claiming self-defense, Dec. 2, 2003.

·Courtney Mathis, 12, shot and killed by a Cincinnati police officer, Sept. 1, 2001.

·Timothy Thomas, 19, shot and killed by off-duty Cincinnati police officers, April 7, 2001.

·Ahmed Diallo, 22, shot 41 times and killed by New York City police officers, Feb. 4, 1999.

·Robert Russ Sr., 22, was one of two unarmed civilians shot and killed by Chicago police in a single week, June 1999.

·Gonzalo Martinez, 26, shot and killed by Downey, Calif. police, Feb. 15, 2002.

·Nathanial Jones, 41, died after being beaten by Cincinnati police, Nov. 30, 2003.

These cases are only a small percentage of the more than 300 unarmed citizens killed each year by police officers who claim they had no other option than to use a service firearm or other means of lethal force.

“Other options,” however, to bring people under submission have been made available to various police departments across the country. In the western United States, there is a sweeping trend by police districts to adopt nonlethal weapons.

According to the San Diego Tribune, more than 1,200 policing agencies have begun using PepperBall guns.

The PepperBall Gun is a semi-automatic, high pressured-air launcher that fires balls containing the strongest, hottest pharmaceutical-grade irritant available.

In October, San Carlos, Calif., police began carrying taser guns, opposite their firearms. The taser sends 50,000 volts of electric shock into the nervous system, completely incapacitating a subject. Officials from the Phoenix Police Department began using taser guns in 2002.

Since its implementation, there has been a 50 percent decrease in the number of shootings by police officers. And in San Diego, where officer-involved shootings are among the highest in the country, police districts are retraining their officers in sensitivity and deployment of nonlethal weaponry.

Nationally, only 1,000 of the 18,000 police agencies currently supply nonlethal devices to officers based on a variety of poor reasons. Major cities of the Midwest and Atlantic regions argue they are sticking to their guns, no pun intended, due to tight city budgets, the lack of training and most importantly, doubt.

Its troubling when the use of nonlethal weapons becomes an oxymoron for police in cities such as: Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, New Orleans, New York, Philadelphia, Portland, Providence, San Francisco and Washington, D.C., where police-involved deaths continue to rise. It seems those sworn to protect and serve are ignoring a proven remedy.

According to a 2002 Associated Press report, a majority of U.S. law enforcement agencies do carry Mace or pepper spray. But officers believe the chemical aerosols don’t pack enough punch to subdue suspected criminals. So, are police trained to believe that the only alternative is to shoot or pound the culprit to death?

Part of the problem lies in the lack of training in defensive tactics and nonlethal artillery. Officers often reach for their holsters because training goes out the door during challenging confrontations. Police must be properly educated in understanding how to best handle all situations. But perhaps the ultimate cure is in the eradication of police officers who sidestep proper training practices. In any other profession, the incompetent are let go. Unfortunately, in law enforcement, someone has to die before incompetence is realized.

In all seriousness, I find your 300 stat highly suspect. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Here is a letter to the editor I researched and was published in the Chicago rags. I found that C. Cramer, and D Kopel :shall issue: The new wave of concealed handgusn permit laws". Independent Institue issue paper. October 17, 1994. that 11% of all police shootings kill an innocent person. To Editor for Editorial page.

Citizens in 44 states “Do not fear Gun Owners who “Citizen Carry” (CC).”

In 1986 only eight (8) states allow “citizen carry” (CC) and crime was on the rise. In the year 2001, 42 states now have CC laws on the books and crime continues to drop. Researchers to the self-defense issue, has noticed crime begin dropping immediately after enactment in each state and showed up four - five years before the Brady law. Our Indiana neighbor has issued 350,000 CC permits and zero (0) has been revoked for a firearms homicide. In these states Police Chief’s are pleasantly surprised in the quality of the applicant.

There are 21 times more (est. 2,500,000) CC owners than “street” policeman (120,000) in the United States. Policemen killed 330 innocent citizens in 1996 and CC’ers (30). Statistically you are 300 times more likely to be innocently shot by a policeman than a CC owner. Sidebar: 700,000 Doctors kill by mistake 90,000 people annually in our nation. Our hearts should go out to each and every family and our heads need to be crystal clear on this issue. Also Citizen Carry citizens commit less crime that even Police officers as a statistical group.

Women are the fastest growing group of gun owners in the United States. “Dial 911 and Die” is real with 911 response times from 5 to 30 minutes. Police only stop 4% in the act violent crime. What logic would as representative suggest to a woman to “talk down” the rapist with AIDS or HIV or STD? 10 minutes is a long time. Get your watch and start talking. Do GG (Gun Grabbers) honestly think the rapist will use a condom? Women should be outraged at the GG for forcing such defenseless thinking. Did you know most rapes last from 2 to 4 hours.

Question? Why do you think, judges, probation officers, bail bondman, attorneys and social workers are given the right to CC or decide to carry illegally? If you ask they will tell you, they are dealing bad guys everyday and know the mindset of these early release felons.

Bad guys will always have guns. It is “dumb and dumber” to believe America is safer by taking away firearms from honest American Citizens or to make felons. Anti gun groups and faulty ordinances in Chicago land are doing just the opposite providing “gun free zones” for criminals to operate in.

Most all State Statues are written to protect the general public not the individual. It is the individual’s responsibility to protect themselves and their families at home and away from home.

Road Rage: It is a myth that CC owners kill cops, or citizens with Road Rage. In the United States over the last twenty years only two (2) known road rage shootings have occurred. Believe me if Road Rage shootings were a problem, the Gun Grabbers (GG’ers), would let us know. One case, after a car accident in TX, the driver begins to punch the man in the face, breaking his eye socket, nose. Profusely bleeding from the face and fearing for his life, the 65 yr old driver pulled his gun and shot the road raged driver saving his life.

· My personal thoughts: Every solid citizen who elects to “CC” carry’s a tremendous burden. This burden is to stay legal, or be charged with a felony or at least a grand jury indictment, should they ever break one of 25,000 gun laws or kill an attacking criminal. We have plenty of criminal laws to put them away for life should any CC’er turn to the dark side. · Jesus in the Bible was smart enough to cast blame on Cain for killing Abel, not blame the stone. Those who believe the “GG” fear spinners need to wake up. · One final closing thought, Christian religions and other religions teach the need to protect ones self. Jesus said in Luke 22:36 30 He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. The sword was the finest weapon outside of the home of its time, far better than rocks, clubs, and stones.

Department of Justice, FBI, CIA, statistics and facts

* Facts and Figures ver3.1 *(700k file)

http://home.attbi.com/~guys/guns.html

end

This is one of the good guys. Amen

I think that police, taken as a group, exhibit the same tendency of populations generally: there are about 3% who are trouble. 97% are 'the good ones'.

Beside Sergeant Arthur, there are five others from my department in Iraq right now. One sent back one week after he was home to stay. Tears in the eyes of a 6', 230lb Marine give you an indication of how difficult a job our troops are doing.

My Lieutenant was whacked in the head by an RPG that ricocheted around inside his HumVee after taking the fingers off the driver. He got knocked clean out: in typical self effacing humor he acknowledges that, had he been hit anywhere else, the blow would have been certainly fatal. He's stiil over there, a Lt Colonel directing the MP raids.

Be comforted: 97% of the guys in police uniform are 'the good ones'. Three percent give the rest a bad rap.

Straight up answers:

1) "empty pipe": If you're using a double-action semi-automatic, you can carry with a bullet in the chamber - which means all you have to do to fire it is pull the trigger. This would be similar to most revolvers.
OR you can carry with NO bullet in the chamber, which means that before you pull the trigger, you have to "rack the slide" (pull back and release the thingie on the top of the pistol) to get a bullet into the chamber.

2) "Shoot to kill": In my department we are taught "shoot to stop". BUT we are also taught to shoot to the center of mass - which, I suspect is likely to kill or to permanently disable.

As far as killing goes, I'd prefer to shot Mozambiques - two to the center of mass and one to the head. As far as "Stopping" goes, I'd like to research shooting to the pelvic area, which some claim is a guaranteed knockdown and NOT necesarilly a killing shot, or even a permanently disabling shot (though one is coming mighty close to Mr. Happy, I guess).

As for keeping one's finger on the trigger, I don't know where that comes from. We are trained to keep the finger OFF the trigger unless you have decided to fire.

As for looking and discovering that one's gun is cocked, we are trained (and I practice) to decock before holstering every time. Also, my duty holster won't work if my Sig P226 is cocked.

My other duty gun is a S&W 686P and it's a double action revolver. It isn't cocked unless I cock it, and after a trigger job it's so smooth in DA that I don't ever cock it. (Well, okay, maybe at the range when I'm showing off, but I practice double action nearly all the time.)

As far as special souped up weapons are concerned, I have had trigger jobs on both my duty guns, but other than that they're stock guns. I don't know any cops that have souped up guns. I do know one department that has stock, double-action-only H&Ks, and I know of other departments that have "double action only" automatics.

But I also wonder how much difference that makes. When I shoot in competitions (where I usually come in last in terms of speed, but do okay in accuracy) I don't even notice if I'm firing double action or single action. When the clock is running and the adrenaline is up, I'm all about sight picture and "squee-ee-eeze the trigger".

Yeah, some LEO's are dopes. Lots aren't. My guess is, on average, you get what you pay for.

And final word: I wish more of us knew how to act, especially how important it is to keep your hands visible and to avoid sudden movements, when firearms and adrenaline are in the same area.

Yeah, I heard that. Mine are paining me at 40. Peace to you and yours.

I'm heading for bed now, and I just want to leave you with one little aside: I understand your frustration with law enforcement, it's a natural thing, and it is always easy to lose patience with a cop for one thing or another. My last speeding ticket (my second in 20 years) occurred on my way home from my grandmother's funeral. I got tagged for doing 30 in a 25, and I wanted to blast that cop's ass for what he did, because I told him where I was coming from and he had no sympathy. Was he an asshole? Yes. But that said, I still support law enforcement. They have a very difficult job to do, especially the good ones who have to deal with people who have dealt with the bad ones.

If you still want to grind some corn on the cops I would suggest that you research how many cops, perps, and innocents have died during the insane chases which we see on TV everyday. Now THERE is a misguided policy.....

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