IBM votes for more offshore outsourcing

Reuters ^ | December 5, 2003

[sarcasm]

NEW YORK: International Business Machines Corp. will continue to build its services business abroad, an official said on Thursday, saying it makes IBM more competitive, saves its customers money and frees up funds for other purposes.

"You can expect continued growth in this marketplace," Doug Elix, the head of IBM's services division, told analysts.

Companies are going to continue outsourcing, or handing their non-core business activities to other companies such as IBM to manage, he said.

IBM, based in Armonk, New York, has been among companies that have moved traditionally higher paid services jobs to low cost centers such as India in recent years.

"I do believe this is one of the more misunderstand elements of what's going on in our industry," Elix said. "We have been leveraging skills globally for as long as we've been in business."

Elix was speaking at IBM's twice-annual meeting with analysts.

[sarcasm]

ping

[lelio]

"I do believe this is one of the more misunderstand elements of what's going on in our industry," Elix said. "We have been leveraging skills globally for as long as we've been in business."

What are we misunderstanding here? You're laying off American workers and hiring in India as they're cheap.

[brownsfan]

THIS is why there is a jobless recovery. The tax cuts have spurred business. Businesses are busy "offshoring". The global marketplace ensures buyers for the products of these businesses.
It seems to me we are moving our means of production, and transferring wealth, all in the name of higher dividends, and bonuses for CEOs.
I've repeatedly said China, emboldened by our transfer of tech and manufacturing capability, will simply take Taiwan. It seems that's happening quicker than I thought.

[raybbr]

... frees up funds for other purposes.

The other purposes would be bonuses, stock oprtions and more money for the execs.

[harpseal]

Ping

As always if anyone wants on or off thgis ping list let me know

[speekinout]

You're laying off American workers and hiring in India as they're cheap.

They're transferring low skilled jobs to places where low skills get low salaries.How much are you willing to pay for low skilled jobs? How much are you willing to pay to get your house cleaned? Your lawn mowed? Buy a software program?

Most people look for low prices. Unless you are willing to start a movement to pay premium prices for goods and services, you can't reasonably complain.

[Elliott Jackalope]

So we are all no longer citizens of a country, we are just economic widgets to be bought and sold on the basis of our economic value? No problem. When the "leaders" of this former "country" want us "citizens" to go and fight and die in the next foreign war, I humbly suggest they go out and hire Ghurkas and Chicoms to do their dirty work. Since they have absolutely no loyalty to us "citizens", then we have no responsibility to them or this so-called "country". Deal?

[dljordan]

Yeah, they're transferring such low skilled jobs as Computer Operator, Systems Programmer, Storage Management Technicians, Database Administrators, etc. Their management goal is to cut employees by ten percent per year. I wonder what they'll do when they get to zero. It ain't the management that runs things at IBM it's the workers that make the wheels go round. They have very hard working, loyal and competent employees that are being betrayed. I watched them outsource one of their computer operations to Brazil and it's a disaster but the management won't admit they're wrong. So it goes. Some people just aren't interchangeable.

[Euro-American Scum]

I've repeatedly said China, emboldened by our transfer of tech and manufacturing capability, will simply take Taiwan. It seems that's happening quicker than I thought.

I don't think they'll stop there. With the JDAM guidance systems whose manufacturing we've offshored there matched to a tactical nuke. . . goodbye west coast.

Of course, the R&D for those systems stays here (probably developed by H1-Bs), so we should all be safe.

[Euro-American Scum]

So we are all no longer citizens of a country, we are just economic widgets to be bought and sold on the basis of our economic value?

Just so, exactly. The President's trade advisor, Robert Zoellick has said as much over and over for the past two years. And all you can expect out of Hillary is to provide you with a government stipend check when she gets to the White House.

But by then the Blue Helmeted Peacekeepers will have arrived to keep the unemployed rabble in line.

[lelio]

But by then the Blue Helmeted Peacekeepers will have arrived to keep the unemployed rabble in line.

What, are you implying that the R's and the D's are in collusion to make themselves richer? Well if this were true then most of them would be millionaires that wouldn't have to work after they retire.

[RaceBannon]

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Manager of Quality Control & Engineering Testing 

Company:	Continuum Search
Location:	US-TN-Brentwood
Pay:	80,000.00 - 100,000.00 USD /year
Status:	Full Time, Employee
Shift:	First Shift (Day)

Job Category:	Manufacturing and Production
Education Level:	Bachelor's Degree

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Job Description

We are currently working with our client Murray, Inc., a leading manufacturer of lawn and garden power tools, in a search for a Manager of Quality Control & Engineering Testing for their facility in Suzhou, China.

Functional Responsibility:
Manage Engineering Testing and Q/C functions at the Engineering and Q/C Lab in Suzhou to test, inspect, and audit component parts and whole goods exported to Murray U.S. operations/customers. Work closely with China Sourcing functions and Murray U.S. Engineering and Sourcing to achieve objectives and expected benefits.
• Manage, supervise, support, lead and train all employees in the Engineering test and Q/C Lab organization.
• Responsible for performance, documentation and communication of all test, Q/C, and audit functions to support objectives.
• Organize and establish test and Q/C priorities, processes and procedures and manage completion of activities on schedule.
• Communication of drawing, specification, test and Q/C requirements and test and Q/C results with China suppliers. Assist Sourcing function with supplier development.

Objectives:
Improve Murray U.S. Sourcing of China-sourced components and whole goods by:

• Rapid, prioritized Q/C inspection, testing and audit in China
• Improved China supplier technical communication and response
• Technical documentation and communication to Murray U.S. Engineering and Sourcing functions, China Sourcing function and suppliers
• In-county Q/C inspection and verification of all production lots before shipment to U.S.
• Audit China Suppliers
• Assist China Sourcing function in supplier development



Position Requirements:
• BS Mechanical or Electrical Engineering. U.S. professional engineer license not a requirement but a plus.
• Ten years minimum personal experience in the design, development, and testing of outdoor powered products similar to all Murray product lines.
• Proven experience and success in managing people , product engineering and testing to tight schedule requirements in an Asian/U.S. multicultural environment.
• Ability to clearly and concisely document and communicate test and Q/C results in English in a timely and appropriate manner.
• Thorough knowledge of U.S. market testing, standards, compliance and Q/C requirements and processes.
• Assignment is either expatriate living in China, or frequent requirement for China-U.S. travel, 2 to 3 weeks in China every month, or about 65-75% of time year-round.
• Ability to speak clear and fluent technical English. Bi-lingual a plus but not a requirement.

Contact Information

Company:	Continuum Search
Address:	105 Westwood Place Suite 325 Brentwood,TN 37027

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[speekinout]

So we are all no longer citizens of a country, we are just economic widgets to be bought and sold on the basis of our economic value?

You don't get it. We are the country. The most popular shopping destination these days is Wal-Mart. They don't get those low prices by buying American made goods. There are plenty of American craftsmen who can produce the same goods, but very few are willing to spend the money.
And we're not going to get affordable word processing software if we have to pay American coders.

We ship out the low skilled work and keep the higher skilled jobs here. Coding has turned into a low skill job.
I'll probably have to duck some lobs from programmers, but that's true.

[speekinout]

IBM's business model has changed dramatically in the last few years (starting almost 10 years ago, I think). They're much more systems integrators than producers of anything. To oversimplify, they design solutions, invent the missing pieces, and put it all together with pieces manufactured elsewhere.

The parts of programming that are just code development (and that's a lot) are not worth the cost to do it in-house.

I would hope that IBM would offer re-training opportunities to the employees, but I can certainly see why certain skills are no longer worth much to the company.

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

“So we are all no longer citizens of a country, we are just economic widgets to be bought and sold on the basis of our economic value? No problem. When the "leaders" of this former "country" want us "citizens" to go and fight and die in the next foreign war, I humbly suggest they go out and hire Ghurkas and Chicoms to do their dirty work. Since they have absolutely no loyalty to us "citizens", then we have no responsibility to them or this so-called "country". Deal?”

The above statement is the reality that “you still don't get”.
Let me know when you have figured out who will be defending our nation. Unemployed and underemployed Americans whose representatives in Congress have sold them out in favor of corporate bribes are more apt to turn their guns on those who have betrayed them than die for a country with such corruption. The golden parachutes and obscene bonuses “earned” by execs who offshore entire departments and then share their profits with crooked congressmen to pass laws destroying America's technological lead in the world need to have the light of day shown on them.
The election is less than a year away.

[oceanview]

you are in a dreamworld. we aren't keeping the low skilled jobs here. in fact, its not a question of skills at all. its a question of where these jobs must have the workers physically located.

look at the last employment report. growth areas were retail, travel & leisure, government. all low skilled jobs. tech and manufacturing, which are high skilled jobs, are going offshore.

[oceanview]

should read "we aren't keeping the HIGH skilled jobs here".

[speekinout]

You are the one who doesn't get it. The US is run by people we elect. If you don't like the ones currently in power, then go work for someone else. I do. And I'm happy with the results.

In case you haven't noticed, the current unemployment rate is below 6% - hardly a catastrophe, and the Feds are actively at work prosecuting CEO's and financial brokers who have been ripping us off.

Whining is not nearly as satisfying as doing something.

[speekinout]

look at the last employment report. growth areas were retail, travel & leisure, government.

I don't think that's a complete list. Growth areas also included medical care and the service sector (and, yes, the service sector includes computer systems integration as well as fast food)