Army officer's case sparks fierce debate

Honolulu Advertiser ^ | December 1, 2003 | Vernon Loeb

[GrandmaPatriot]

WASHINGTON — Despite criticism from leading Republicans on Capitol Hill, senior Army leaders are defending the filing of criminal charges against a battalion commander in Iraq who fired his pistol near the head of an Iraqi detainee in an attempt to frighten him into divulging information about a planned ambush against U.S. forces.

A soldier of the 4th Infantry Division searched a detained man, left, as other blindfolded detainees waited during a May raid against Baath Party loyalists in Tikrit, Iraq, Saddam Hussein's hometown. A battalion commander from the 4th Infantry has been accused of abusing an Iraqi detainee.

The case, the focus of intense debate within the Army and in wider military circles, has raised questions about acceptable conduct in wartime. This comes as casualties increase in Iraq and the U.S. military battles a shadowy insurgency against Iraqis loyal to deposed President Saddam Hussein and foreign fighters linked to the al-Qaida terrorist network

[GrandmaPatriot]

This was reprinted in the Honolulu Advertiser but has a tag line from Washington Post so I excerpted it. Hope that's OK.

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

They should fine him $100 dollars and let him pay it in pre-war Iraqi notes. Then put his ass back to work saving his men.

[GrandmaPatriot]

Sounds like justice would be served.

Just heard on FNC that West's lawyer asked West's commanding officer if he would opt to save his troops lives or follow rules. The commanding officer said, "I would need further details to make that decision." What kind of commanders are over the troops over there? I think the moral of that division is going to take a nose dive over that comment.

[jacquej]

I was shocked yesterday when talking to my son. He graduated from West Point, and says that West made a terrible career-ending mistake, and that West never should have done it.

You see, the higher up you are in the chain of command, the tougher the rules. A leader has to set the tone for the military under him, and West failed.

I guess otherwise, we can end up with My Lai messes. The irony of it is that we are fighting a war with people who play by no rules, but our highest officers must play by them in order to have a well-diciplined force under them.

Also, if a Lieutenant had made this mistake, it wouldn't get anywhere near the attention West is getting. Younger less experienced officers are expected to make mistakes such as this, but not the higher ups...

A harder issue than we civilians cab get our heads around, I think...

[m1-lightning]

Let's give him a federal grand jury like all of the human rights nuts want to give the GITMO detainees. Let's see if 12 Americans Citizens will convict one that had a motive to defend their nation.

[Gunner Mike]

"Just heard on FNC that West's lawyer asked West's commanding officer if he would opt to save his troops lives or follow rules. The commanding officer said, "I would need further details to make that decision." What kind of commanders are over the troops over there? I think the moral of that division is going to take a nose dive over that comment."

What we are viewing/experiencing is the Political Correctness that started in the schools and colleges and now is in the military. West's CO sounds like the liberal in the below listed responses to threat by liberal, conservative, and Marine.

Conservatives and liberals might react differently when faced
with a threat of deadly violence; then there are the MARINES..........

Question: You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small
children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes around
the corner and is running at you while screaming obscenities. In your hand
is a Colt .45 M1911A1 semiautomatic pistol and you are an expert shot. You
have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do you do?

Liberal Answer:
"Well, that's not enough information to answer the question! Does the man look poor or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that is inspiring him to attack? Could we run away? What does my wife think? What about the kids? Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the
knife out of his hand? What does the law say about this situation? Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me? Does he definitely want to kill me or would he just be content to wound me? If I were to grab his knees and
hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me? This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with some friends for a few days to try to come to a conclusion."

Conservative Answer:
BANG!

MARINE Answer:
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click...
(sounds of magazine being ejected and fresh magazine installed)
Wife: "Sweetheart, he looks like he's still moving, what do you kids think?"
Son: "Mom's right Dad, I saw him moving too..."
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
Daughter: "Nice grouping, Daddy!"

[m1-lightning]

Nice post!

[OldEagle]

I said this before: LTC West's mistake is that he told his CO about his experience. I wouldn't fault him for saving his troops.
Political Correctness, in and of itself has no place in life and death military decisions.

[Lucy Lake]

Ping.

[Calpernia]

Another Lt. Col. West ping.

[Calpernia]

Thanks for the ping.

[Calpernia]

May I request you keep a few magazines at hand and stick around the thread a little longer? There are a few that REALLY troll Lt. Col. West threads big time.

[The Mayor]

Thankyou and Thanks for the mail.

[Soaring Feather]

Thanks for the ping.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[MattinNJ]

ROTFLMAO

[Conspiracy Guy]

MARINE Answer: BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click...

All the Marines I've known are better shots than that. Just Bang!!!

[blackie]

Bump for an American hero ~ Lt. Col. West !!

[archy]

MARINE Answer: BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click...

All the Marines I've known are better shots than that. Just Bang!!!

A very effective Gunnery Sergeant of my experience once informed me rather haughtily that his Marine Corps dod NOT pay him to bring unexpended ammunition back.

Besides, the load is a bit lighter that way. Enough spare ammo for personal security on the return trip needs to be maintained, of course, but Marines are usually pretty good judges of such things.

-archy-/-

[archy]

What kind of commanders are over the troops over there? I think the moral of that division is going to take a nose dive over that comment.

We shall see. The following news is likely to result in some unhappy campers as well. Canadian teen accused of killing U.S. special ops soldier to be released from Gitmo