Bush says Muslims and Christians Worship Same God

Well said.

A man had three sons. The youngest called him 'baba.' The middle son called him 'Daddy.' Only the eldest called him 'Father.' Yet the Father knew whenever any of his sons were calling to him.

Exactly.

The President of the United States of America cannot get into a huge religious debate.

This thread proves it.

Besides how will we get Muslims to turn in their fellow Islamic terrorists, if we constantly berate their religion? We must have intell to win.

I'm sure the Pres. deeply feels, like most of us, that Islam is a death cult.

He is, in a sense, trying to de-program, those who might be reasonable.

regarding post #7 -
I know some monks from the 4th century who would like to have a word with you :>

"John 10:16 Jesus says he has other sheep who are not in his sheep pen... "

But He also said that there was a time to separate the sheep from the goats, too.

Then he is not a Christian.

What gives you the right to declare who is Christian and who is not? You sound like the muslim extremists talking about other muslims.

Here's a partial list:

Gee, would it have been so much trouble to put them all in alphabetical order?

As someone raised Catholic, I always believed that Christians and Muslims worship the same God. I still do.

Truth is not determined by how many people believe something or how long they believe it. Or who teaches it. The Bible commends the Bereans for not believing the preaching of St. Paul until they confirmed it in the word of God (Acts 17:11). We should follow their example and confirm the claims of contemporary popes, priests, and pastors by reference to the word of God.

Thus the way to judge if the God of Christianity and the god of Islam are the same is to compare their respective scriptures. If there is contradiction, then the two religions do not share the same God. And even the most elementary review shows this clearly. For example, the Bible and the Koran have two, mutually exclusive accounts of the creation of man:

The Bible teaches that God created man out of "the dust of the ground" and "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being." (Gen 2:7).

The Koran teaches that Allah "created Man of a blood-clot." (Sura XCVI, p. 344 in The Koran, Interpreted, A.J. Arberry, trans., New York: Collier Books).

Like it or not, the god of Islam and the God of Christianity are NOT one.

Is there any place to watch this interview now? Or is there a transcript?

Some of us are carrying real anger right now, of the biblical type.

Oh, please. The Prophets were not knuckle-dragging bigots.

" I see that many fine Christians on this thread have no apprecdiation of
the tightrope Bush has to walk on this issue."

I agree with your assessment. But I think he could have been prepared with a little bit better answer. It's not like he couldn't see this coming.

Ok, you can play president. How would you have answered the question?

Ping. Ok I understand the political expedience of being the President but this is going too far.

What gives you the right to declare who is Christian and who is not?

Soon we will have to recognise Muslims, Buddists, gay "bishops" and Chicoms as Christians. Otherwise we will be accused of hate crime.

Then he is not a Christian.

Ah, so President Bush worships satan, eh? Good day, Reverend Loon.

It would be accurate to say that traditional Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe in a Supreme Being Who is all powerful, all knowing, and not confined by the limits of space and time. In other words, all three religions have a common belief in the attributes and power of God.

Orthodox Christians, whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox, have a different conception of God's nature than do Jews or Muslims, or heterodox groups like Unitarians, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses. The clearest definition of the orthodox Christian concept of God may be found in the Athanasian Creed. "And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son and another of the Holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son and such is the Holy Spirit."

This position is rejected by all of those groups beyond the pale of orthodoxy, but is based on Biblical teachings. The Jews do not accept the New Testament. The Muslims regard the Koran as perfecting and superceding the Bible. The Mormons regard The Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrines and Covenants as revelations equal or superior to the Bible. The Unitarians deny that the Scriptures are divinely inspired or without error in matters of faith and doctrine. The Jehovah's Witnesses use a translation of the Bible that confounds both traditional and modern Scriptural scholarship. Hence, all these groups lack the grounds in their sacred writings to support the orthodox Christian definition of the Trinity.

The same could be said for the orthodox Christian definition of the nature of Jesus Christ, as defined by the Council of Chalcedon. Jesus Christ is both truly God and truly man, being "recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence." All those beyond the pale of orthodox Christianity, whether Muslim, Jewish, Mormon, Unitatian, Jehovah's Witnesses, or otherwise, understandably reject this doctrine, though Scripture supports it.

Christians of orthodox belief disagree with the aforementioned other groups as to the nature and character of God, even if they agree with them on His power and attributes. Therefore, it cannot be said that orthodox Christians worship the same God as the others.

President Bush is perhaps playing to a popular "unity in diversity" theme, sort of a revival of the old saw, "the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man." He is practicing a type of American civil religion that was expressed by Dwight Eisenhower 50 years ago in words to the effect that our political system was founded on a belief in God, but that he didn't care whose God it was. Bush's statement and that of Eisenhower may make political sense, but they do not make religious sense.

It would be accurate to say that traditional Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe in a Supreme Being Who is all powerful, all knowing, and not confined by the limits of space and time. In other words, all three religions have a common belief in the attributes and power of God.

Orthodox Christians, whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox, have a different conception of God's nature than do Jews or Muslims, or heterodox groups like Unitarians, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses. The clearest definition of the orthodox Christian concept of God may be found in the Athanasian Creed. "And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son and another of the Holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son and such is the Holy Spirit."

This position is rejected by all of those groups beyond the pale of orthodoxy, but is based on Biblical teachings. The Jews do not accept the New Testament. The Muslims regard the Koran as perfecting and superceding the Bible. The Mormons regard The Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrines and Covenants as revelations equal or superior to the Bible. The Unitarians deny that the Scriptures are divinely inspired or without error in matters of faith and doctrine. The Jehovah's Witnesses use a translation of the Bible that confounds both traditional and modern Scriptural scholarship. Hence, all these groups lack the grounds in their sacred writings to support the orthodox Christian definition of the Trinity.

The same could be said for the orthodox Christian definition of the nature of Jesus Christ, as defined by the Council of Chalcedon. Jesus Christ is both truly God and truly man, being "recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence." All those beyond the pale of orthodox Christianity, whether Muslim, Jewish, Mormon, Unitatian, Jehovah's Witnesses, or otherwise, understandably reject this doctrine, though Scripture supports it.

Christians of orthodox belief disagree with the aforementioned other groups as to the nature and character of God, even if they agree with them on His power and attributes. Therefore, it cannot be said that orthodox Christians worship the same God as the others.

President Bush is perhaps playing to a popular "unity in diversity" theme, sort of a revival of the old saw, "the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man." He is practicing a type of American civil religion that was expressed by Dwight Eisenhower 50 years ago in words to the effect that our political system was founded on a belief in God, but that he didn't care whose God it was. Bush's statement and that of Eisenhower may make political sense, but they do not make religious sense.

I agree with you that Allah is not the same as the God of the Jews and the Christians.

But Bush isn't a theologian, he's the President. He has to say what will be best for the country he leads. It would be wrong for him to gratuitously offend a billion Muslims and draw them together against us. Better to pretend that Islam is really a nice religion, which will tend to split them.

Sorry for the double psot.

Very good summary. I think you helped clarify the issue.

Actually, Abraham wasn't "Jewish". There were no Jews until three generations later. Abraham had Isaac. Isaac had Jacob/Israel. Israel had 12 sons, one of whom was Judah. The descendants of Judah are the Jews.

But the Arab Muslims do look to Abraham as their father. And there have been DNA tests, I'm told, on Jews and Arabs showing them descended from a common male ancestor.

The big shrine in Mecca that is the most important place in Islam is built around a stone that they believe came from an altar built by Abraham.

I don't know if it's the same altar he built to sacrifice his son on, or not. But another interesting thing about Muslim belief is that the biggest single feast in Islam commemmorates that almost sacrifice. But in Islam, the son on the altar was Ishmael, not Isaac.