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Could Russian 'waterbomber' save California? - Congressmen say feds resisting.. jet.. douse..
WND ^
| 10/31/03
| Joseph Farah
Posted on 10/31/2003 5:58:29 AM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection
click here to read article
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To: gridlock
Couldn't the State of California contract with whoever they want to drop water?You would think so but, I've been reading that the California bureaucracy has not even allowed qualified volunteers to help out because of the strength that the unions have over Grayout Davis.
41
posted on
10/31/2003 6:53:10 AM PST
by
capydick
(Where did all these Useful Idiots come from?)
To: Jambe
"We use local resources first, then we expand to nationwide before we exhaust
all our available resources," Satterthwaite said....we are able to move a significant
amount of resources between regions," she said.
After Rummy has re-bulit the US Military, he needs to fix the US Forest Service.
It's sad to see a US government agency imitating the ineffiencies of the old
USSR. I get the feeling that the US Forest Service is afraid that thousands of
support personnel and aged, low capacity planes might just be put out of a job
by a small fleet of these super-waterbombers and maybe a couple hundred crew.
42
posted on
10/31/2003 6:54:26 AM PST
by
VOA
To: capydick
You would think so but, I've been reading that the California bureaucracy has
not even allowed qualified volunteers to help out because of the strength that
the unions have over Grayout Davis.
I'm not bashing the current brave firefighters...but one does get the feeling
that the Feds and state bureaucrats are engaging in possible "job protection" by keeping
these "waterbombers" or even the concept of such a thing out of the picture.
43
posted on
10/31/2003 6:56:24 AM PST
by
VOA
To: VOA
Right. I'm sure that the guys on the ground would be extremely grateful for more help and tools for fighting these fires. It's the bureaucrats protecting Davis' last days that are hindering the volunteer effort.
44
posted on
10/31/2003 7:04:29 AM PST
by
capydick
(Where did all these Useful Idiots come from?)
To: DianaN
"I am positive there are very good reasons of national security we do not allow a Russian plane with a Russian pilot to overfly California. "
You know, there are Russian planes with Russian pilots that overfly California, Washington, Illinois, Wisconson, New York, Washington, D.C., Florida and a few others. It's called "Aeroflot" and is the Russian national airline. So I don't understand your logic.
45
posted on
10/31/2003 7:24:55 AM PST
by
navyblue
To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Call me a skeptic of this article...
Though it convinced Robinson and the Greek public, the Greek government decided against future use of the Waterbomber, preferring instead to invest in a fleet of planes at $25 million each.
If it was such a miracle, why not buy one or two rather than a "fleet" of other expensive aircraft? Maybe there's more to the story than this self-described zealot is telling...?
46
posted on
10/31/2003 7:26:14 AM PST
by
pgyanke
(I want to sign up for Terri's Army!)
To: VOA
If there is a $500,000 cap on this contract, couldn't a private landowner with more than $500,000 at risk contract this aircraft to drop water on his own property? Who's to stop him? If landing rights are a problem, fly the darn thing out of Mexico. The border is right there anyway.
Once this thing starts flying, it will be the busiest aircraft in California. No shortage of fires.
47
posted on
10/31/2003 7:30:09 AM PST
by
gridlock
(Rooting for the Yankees means you can say, "We'll get 'em next year!", and mean it!)
To: Blueflag
"How 'bout asking the folks who fight the fires if they would like the help? (just a thought)"
How about asking the people who lost homes and family members if they think that they could have used the help?
How about asking people who have seen it work about how effective it is? (Note: they all rave about it.)
How about asking the bureaucrats in the Forest Service what excuse they have for not using foreign technology that has been proved effective elsewhere to save lives and property?
How about asking the RIGHT questions instead of asking petty bureaucrats about why they like their little empire just the way that is right now?
48
posted on
10/31/2003 7:41:01 AM PST
by
Steely Glint
("Communists are just Democrats in a big hurry.")
To: pgyanke
"why not buy one or two rather than a "fleet" of other expensive aircraft? Maybe there's more to the story than this self-described zealot is telling...?"
If I am corrupt Joe Bureucrat, and I can get a kickback from a local firm and not get one from an overseas firm, which one do I go with? If the powers that be call and say "Joe, we want you to use a domestic supplier so the money stays in the country", which one do I go with? If I have been promised a great job when I retire with the local airplane manufacturers if I steer contracts to them, which one do I go with? If my relatives own part of the local firm, which one do I go with?
Very, very, very few government decisions anywhere ever have anything at all to do with the merits of the case in question. It's all about politcs and influence.
49
posted on
10/31/2003 7:45:29 AM PST
by
Steely Glint
("Communists are just Democrats in a big hurry.")
To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Guys, go read
http://www.vadscorner.com/tooproud.html "Too proud to accept Russias help"
Some highlights:
"A single IL-76 tanker can drop 11,000 gallons of water in one trip - about four times as much as the largest tanker in the U.S. arsenal, the C-130 Hercules. Ask any firefighters who dont wear a tie to work and theyll tell you thats an asset they want on their side."
'The aircraft Russia is offering is new, and we dont understand its technology or capabilities,' said Pat Entwistle, a fire information officer. 'Also, they have non-English speaking crews and we havent figured out how to incorporate this plane into our system.'...Told that Russia has been offering this assistance for years, Entwistle said: 'In the past, we have never had a situation that exceeded our capability to handle.'
"Back in Russia, the Ministry of Emergency Situations understandably is flabbergasted at all this. After years of being told their help is unwanted, the Russians are beginning to sense something more than the prickly pride of the U.S. Forest Service at work...'Fear of competition,' is how Sergei Shoigu, who heads Russias version of FEMA, described the reticent American response."
"Robinson thinks this resistance comes down to pure inertia. 'Like any federal agency, they dont want to change,' Robinson told me. 'Theyre comfortable using small planes and a group of private contractors. Now they have to adjust and they dont like it.'
50
posted on
10/31/2003 7:53:42 AM PST
by
Steely Glint
("Communists are just Democrats in a big hurry.")
To: farmfriend; madfly
ping
To: Tumbleweed_Connection
The motivation for not using this equipment is the firefighting union in California.
The union has refused the services of the US military and its very capable firefighting force that is located right there in California.
52
posted on
10/31/2003 8:01:32 AM PST
by
kidd
To: Tumbleweed_Connection; AAABEST; Ace2U; Alamo-Girl; Alas; amom; AndreaZingg; Anonymous2; ...
Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.
For real time political chat - Radio Free Republic chat room
53
posted on
10/31/2003 8:21:27 AM PST
by
farmfriend
( Isaiah 55:10,11)
To: Steely Glint
Good point!
54
posted on
10/31/2003 8:44:13 AM PST
by
pgyanke
("The Son of God became a man to enable men to become sons of God" - C.S. Lewis)
To: Tumbleweed_Connection
I could have sworn that I read on FR that Evergreen was going to convert some 747s for water bombers.
Can't find the story now.
55
posted on
10/31/2003 9:33:35 AM PST
by
hattend
To: Leisler
Exactly.
56
posted on
10/31/2003 9:37:16 AM PST
by
RightWhale
(Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
To: smith288
I think its the environmentalists who've infiltrated the forest service and have made it into an arm of international environmental organizations.
You see a year ago 4 firefighters died because the forest service would not let a helicopter get water from a nearby stream so they could dump it and get the firemen out. They were concerned for the fishes you see.
The forest service opposes water bombing because loading the planes and helicopters, they might pick up a fish, who wouldn't last very long if they were dropped on a fire.
I am really sick of the attitude of human lives be damned save the fishes that the enviro and their cohorts in the state fish and game and in the US park service have.
To: Tumbleweed_Connection
If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
58
posted on
10/31/2003 11:56:18 AM PST
by
F.J. Mitchell
(If you seen yourself as other people do, you'd laugh too.)
To: hedgetrimmer
The forest service opposes water bombing because loading the planes and helicopters,
they might pick up a fish, who wouldn't last very long if they were dropped on a fire.
I hadn't heard this explicity stated before...but it does make sense.
Human lives and property be d-mne, we've got to protect them bass!
59
posted on
10/31/2003 4:40:20 PM PST
by
VOA
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