Could Russian 'waterbomber' save California? - Congressmen say feds resisting.. jet.. douse..

WND ^ | 10/31/03 | Joseph Farah

[capydick]

Couldn't the State of California contract with whoever they want to drop water?

You would think so but, I've been reading that the California bureaucracy has not even allowed qualified volunteers to help out because of the strength that the unions have over Grayout Davis.

[VOA]

"We use local resources first, then we expand to nationwide before we exhaust
all our available resources," Satterthwaite said....we are able to move a significant
amount of resources between regions," she said.

After Rummy has re-bulit the US Military, he needs to fix the US Forest Service.
It's sad to see a US government agency imitating the ineffiencies of the old
USSR. I get the feeling that the US Forest Service is afraid that thousands of
support personnel and aged, low capacity planes might just be put out of a job
by a small fleet of these super-waterbombers and maybe a couple hundred crew.

[VOA]

You would think so but, I've been reading that the California bureaucracy has
not even allowed qualified volunteers to help out because of the strength that
the unions have over Grayout Davis.

I'm not bashing the current brave firefighters...but one does get the feeling
that the Feds and state bureaucrats are engaging in possible "job protection" by keeping
these "waterbombers" or even the concept of such a thing out of the picture.

[capydick]

Right. I'm sure that the guys on the ground would be extremely grateful for more help and tools for fighting these fires. It's the bureaucrats protecting Davis' last days that are hindering the volunteer effort.

[navyblue]

"I am positive there are very good reasons of national security we do not allow a Russian plane with a Russian pilot to overfly California. "

You know, there are Russian planes with Russian pilots that overfly California, Washington, Illinois, Wisconson, New York, Washington, D.C., Florida and a few others. It's called "Aeroflot" and is the Russian national airline. So I don't understand your logic.

[pgyanke]

Call me a skeptic of this article...

Though it convinced Robinson and the Greek public, the Greek government decided against future use of the Waterbomber, preferring instead to invest in a fleet of planes at $25 million each.

If it was such a miracle, why not buy one or two rather than a "fleet" of other expensive aircraft? Maybe there's more to the story than this self-described zealot is telling...?

[gridlock]

If there is a $500,000 cap on this contract, couldn't a private landowner with more than $500,000 at risk contract this aircraft to drop water on his own property? Who's to stop him? If landing rights are a problem, fly the darn thing out of Mexico. The border is right there anyway.

Once this thing starts flying, it will be the busiest aircraft in California. No shortage of fires.

[Steely Glint]

"How 'bout asking the folks who fight the fires if they would like the help? (just a thought)"

How about asking the people who lost homes and family members if they think that they could have used the help?

How about asking people who have seen it work about how effective it is? (Note: they all rave about it.)

How about asking the bureaucrats in the Forest Service what excuse they have for not using foreign technology that has been proved effective elsewhere to save lives and property?

How about asking the RIGHT questions instead of asking petty bureaucrats about why they like their little empire just the way that is right now?

[Steely Glint]

"why not buy one or two rather than a "fleet" of other expensive aircraft? Maybe there's more to the story than this self-described zealot is telling...?"

If I am corrupt Joe Bureucrat, and I can get a kickback from a local firm and not get one from an overseas firm, which one do I go with? If the powers that be call and say "Joe, we want you to use a domestic supplier so the money stays in the country", which one do I go with? If I have been promised a great job when I retire with the local airplane manufacturers if I steer contracts to them, which one do I go with? If my relatives own part of the local firm, which one do I go with?

Very, very, very few government decisions anywhere ever have anything at all to do with the merits of the case in question. It's all about politcs and influence.

[Steely Glint]

Guys, go read http://www.vadscorner.com/tooproud.html

"Too proud to accept Russia’s help"

Some highlights:

"A single IL-76 tanker can drop 11,000 gallons of water in one trip - about four times as much as the largest tanker in the U.S. arsenal, the C-130 Hercules. Ask any firefighters who don’t wear a tie to work and they’ll tell you that’s an asset they want on their side."

“'The aircraft Russia is offering is new, and we don’t understand its technology or capabilities,' said Pat Entwistle, a fire information officer. 'Also, they have non-English speaking crews and we haven’t figured out how to incorporate this plane into our system.'...Told that Russia has been offering this assistance for years, Entwistle said: 'In the past, we have never had a situation that exceeded our capability to handle.'”

"Back in Russia, the Ministry of Emergency Situations understandably is flabbergasted at all this. After years of being told their help is unwanted, the Russians are beginning to sense something more than the prickly pride of the U.S. Forest Service at work...'Fear of competition,' is how Sergei Shoigu, who heads Russia’s version of FEMA, described the reticent American response."

"Robinson thinks this resistance comes down to pure inertia. 'Like any federal agency, they don’t want to change,' Robinson told me. 'They’re comfortable using small planes and a group of private contractors. Now they have to adjust and they don’t like it.'”

[Libertarianize the GOP]

ping

[kidd]

The motivation for not using this equipment is the firefighting union in California.

The union has refused the services of the US military and its very capable firefighting force that is located right there in California.

[farmfriend]

Rights, farms, environment ping.

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[pgyanke]

Good point!

[hattend]

I could have sworn that I read on FR that Evergreen was going to convert some 747s for water bombers.

Can't find the story now.

[RightWhale]

Exactly.

[hedgetrimmer]

I think its the environmentalists who've infiltrated the forest service and have made it into an arm of international environmental organizations.

You see a year ago 4 firefighters died because the forest service would not let a helicopter get water from a nearby stream so they could dump it and get the firemen out. They were concerned for the fishes you see.

The forest service opposes water bombing because loading the planes and helicopters, they might pick up a fish, who wouldn't last very long if they were dropped on a fire.

I am really sick of the attitude of human lives be damned save the fishes that the enviro and their cohorts in the state fish and game and in the US park service have.

[F.J. Mitchell]

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

[VOA]

The forest service opposes water bombing because loading the planes and helicopters,
they might pick up a fish, who wouldn't last very long if they were dropped on a fire.

I hadn't heard this explicity stated before...but it does make sense.

Human lives and property be d-mne, we've got to protect them bass!