Posted on 11/21/2022 1:35:09 PM PST by Attention Surplus Disorder
In a non-continuing non-series.....
original Q: Is capitalism basically saying that you have to work and pay for the right for basic life necessities? How is that freedom?
me: Well, how would it be freedom for the people who would have to provide you with such things? You want free medical care? No problem, find a doctor who is willing to treat you for free. You want a free house, no problem, find carpenters and a lumber yard and a plumbing supply joint that is willing to provide you those things for free.
JB: You don't know how a society works, do you?
me: No, I really don't. Why don't you enlighten us with your prescription for how a society works?
JB: Not unless you pay me my standard hourly teaching fee. I didn't go to school just to give you knowledge for 0 dollars.
me: So I guess you are saying that nobody works for free? Wasn't that exactly my point? Thanks for ratifying it so quickly.
JB: No, I was just giving you a dose of your own medicine. Your ideology is already set, nothing I say will convince you, no matter how logical or reasoned my argument.
me: Nice! Isn't it yet another iteration of my point when I agree to pay you zero and you agree to regale me zero with your theories? At your school, how much tuition do they charge for the course where they teach you how to tell when you've lost the argument?
Sounds like you have a love/hate relationship going on.
.... for the course where they teach you how to tell when you’ve lost the argument?
+++++++++++++++++
No such courses in woke, Leftist schools because THEY are always “right” (correct) and we are always wrong ... or racist, or misogynistic or whatever name-calling they have to do to avoid admitting they are wrong.
Work or starve.
John Smith, Jamestown Colony
2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.
Correct. No leftist will ever lose an argument, although many will simply walk away in midstream when they see the handwriting getting scrawled on the wall.
I’ve noticed leftists, no matter how ill informed and out of touch with reality, typically push the idea that they are mentally superiority and anyone who doesn’t agree with them is stupid. The public indoctrination camps and modern leftist culture teach their followers arrogance and condescension instead of how to debate intelligently or to open their minds to different possibilities and viewpoints.
It’s sad really. It means they can push the most idiotic, illogical things and their people will eat it up without question because they are already certain they and they alone have all the answers.
Yes. A Leftist will often not even try to make any attempt at a reasoned argument. They simply state their opinion and think they’ve won. If you engage and say, “Here’s why I believe the things that I believe ...”, the Leftist will tend to give up and say, “You just won’t listen to reason” and walk away. And they will tell their friends that they won.
I always ask such people to describe the ethics of a “right” that obligates the service of a second party.
I’ve never had a leftard address that question directly.
A perfect definition of socialist states.
Walking away, sometimes abruptly, especially on certain subjects, is becoming all the more common.
Not just mentally, morally superior as well. The conclusions and approved behaviors this all leads to is just downright weird.
I re-listen to this talk by Evan Sayet every so often.
https://www.heritage.org/event/how-the-modern-liberal-thinks-and-why-hes-convinced-ignorance-bliss
Ditto.
When the Mayflower came over they were supposed to be a communal colony. After a year or two of failure they turned to a form of capitalism and then they had success. IIRC the first feast of “Thanksgiving” was after this success - so it is really a celebration of capitalism.
It's a new logical fallacy, Argumentum ad Brunnensis, a derivative of Argumentum ad Verecundiam, that is, "We went to Brown and you didn't".
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/communism-capitalism-and-the-third-thanksgiving
Here is Bradford’s diary entries on moving the colony towards a free market. It all seems so obvious, but I guess not as from the 1600’s to now people still think free handouts and “equality” works.
Ironically, I have known a great many professionals - doctors, for example - who don’t have a problem with providing a free service, or trading for service, or working for half-pay on the occasion.
It’s called charity, good will, giving back to the community, and it used to be a normal part of being a professional whose services are highly valued and in demand. “I have made a comfortable living off what I do; I can afford to be generous every so often as a good example to others.”
Socialism makes a sacrament of freeloading and renders true charity impossible.
Basic human rights - individual rights, more properly - are notable in that they do not ordinarily require someone else to perform, in the exercise of those rights. Free speech. Freedom of worship. (1st Amendment) Self-defense (2nd Amendment).
Once the unscrupulous start opining on what people have a “right” to - so-called free medical care, or free food, free rent, whatever, then we aren’t talking about basic human or individual rights, for precisely the reason you describe.
Doctors (for example) don’t go to medical school for free, necessarily. They don’t work for free. And they shouldn’t be forced to work for free. We (The Republicans, in 1865 anyway) outlawed Slavery. I guess the leftists are still pissed off about that.
The problem with leftist and their philosophies is an inherent flaw in their understanding of human behavior. Technology changes, human nature does not. It is a worldview ultimately designed to tear down family and society, in order that they can obtain total power. Some of its adherents might mean well, but they are pawns.
The only method for us to collectively thrive is by a rigid and unyielding protection of individual rights. Individual rights are practically alien throughout history, and around the world today.
They must be bundled with private property rights, presumption of innocence, equality under the law, rule of law, etc.
Everything that makes individuals, or societies, or businesses, etc is under vicious unyielding attack whenever possible. This is not a coincidence.
I’d venture to say that virtually all docs perform free work on occasion. I’ve never met a doctor (not that that is anything but an anecdote) who went into the professional purely for the money. And I have a fair number in my family.
But that’s not a valid formula for providing healthcare to a general population. In other words, it has to be the exception, and the rare exception, given the overhead on offices, staff, malpractice insurance, supplies, and plenty of other things. Plus the general certainty that 100% of the population will need to see a doc for something at some point.
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