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Background: I had to take down a neighbor's dog (Boxer - Lab mix, I think) that was left unattended over the holiday, got loose this morning, and dug it's way into one of our chicken coops, killing 6(!)* of our best layers. This dog has been notably aggressive when it got loose before, anyway, although I've been able to run it off by picking up a bat or hefty branch, yelling (RRARRR!!!) and charging IT - dogs seem to know sometimes when you have the advantage of size, determination, and aggression. (A "dominance" thing?) And, it never before got to our chickens or my daughter's two plump housecats, who like to go outside.

This morning tho', was the last straw, and when the dog came back on our property and growled and came at me, I was positioned to take a clear shot right at its chest. No sticks this time: doggie got a 22 lr hollow point dead center chest from my Ruger rifle, 10 yards away. The dog was able to run back across the road but was dead B4 I could position for a clear follow up. Might have been a bit of a lucky shot to kill so quickly, as the Ruger is more accurate than I am. Anyway, the situation had me wanting something a bit more powerful, without being a dang cannon. (If I need the latter, out comes the 12 ga.)

So... What do FReepers think of 9mm carbines as a mid-power varmint rifles? My requirements are relatively cheap, hopefully available(!) ammo, typical range under 100 yards (usually 50 or less, really), only moderate penetration to minimize exiting of the target, with stopping power similar to a 38 to .357 handgun / somewhere between a .22lr hollow point and a 12 ga. deer slug.

I definitely want something not as LOUD as a 12 ga., and with considerably less recoil, so my quite petite wife and / or daughter can comfortably use it, if need be.

The typical target is a medium to medium large dog (Pit Bull, Boxer, Lab, etc.), or possibly a coyote. Hollow point slugs are a given.

I DO have a .223 carbine, but a larger, lower velocity, relatively inexpensive slug makes more sense to me, here.

1 posted on 01/01/2022 9:38:38 PM PST by Paul R.
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To: Paul R.

Have at it! I’m sure there will e many opinions... :-)


2 posted on 01/01/2022 9:39:30 PM PST by Paul R. (You know your pullets are dumb if they don't recognize a half Whopper as food!)
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To: Paul R.

We use pistol calibers in pistols because rifle calibers don’t fit in pistols. If the platform works for rifle calibers, use a rifle caliber.


5 posted on 01/01/2022 9:44:07 PM PST by ctdonath2 (Statistics don't matter when they happen to you.)
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To: Paul R.

Just off the top of my head…

Henry .410. There’s a variety of shells available for specialty purposes, but for close range, not too loud & effective it is a good option.

Want a short barrel option? No worries.

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/shotguns/henry-lever-action-axe-bluedwalnut-410-gauge-2-12in-lever-action-shotgun-15in/p/1638591?msclkid=5ccc628461b11805fb3f03555dfba945&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Bing%20-%20DSA%20-%20Category%20Pages&utm_term=shooting%20&utm_content=Range%20Gear

I have a non-lethal rubber bullet load in the FIRST shell. After that…..


6 posted on 01/01/2022 9:48:59 PM PST by jdsteel ("A Republic, Madam, if you can keep it." Sorry Ben, looks like we blew it.)
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To: Paul R.

What you want is a .357 lever action. Nod your head “yes”. Trust Me.


8 posted on 01/01/2022 9:55:10 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: Paul R.

High point makes a cheap 9mm or .45 carbine for less than $300. Yes its a high point but its suprisingly accurate.


9 posted on 01/01/2022 9:55:41 PM PST by Husker24 (Pp)
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To: Paul R.

45 ACP Camp Carbine. Nice and quiet. Use soft lead bullets.


14 posted on 01/01/2022 10:02:17 PM PST by Born to Conserve
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To: Paul R.

There are a number of pistol caliber carbines out there. Ruger and Beretta make nice ones, and if price is a factor Hi-point makes one that I’ve never had a problem with. I might consider .45 as a caliber. Low velocity, big bullet. .45 also is not to bad out of a carbine, so those for whom it is too big in a handgun won’t be put off by a carbine.


15 posted on 01/01/2022 10:04:02 PM PST by Lee Enfield (Lighten up Francis)
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To: Paul R.

I love mine. I’ve used it on whitetail deer with no issues. FMJ bullet no less. It has a 16” barrel, and those 9mm slugs come out of it cooking. I can ring an 8” plate with it a 200 yards.


16 posted on 01/01/2022 10:04:34 PM PST by eastexsteve
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To: Paul R.
Ruger PC9 with the Glock mag well pairs nicely with a G45 or G19. If you prefer .357mag, a 4" 686+ revolver paired with a lever action .357mag works well. I have a Rossi M92 for that config. Bigger? Marlin 1895G in 45-70 paired with a BFR revolver in 45-70. Smaller? Ruger 10/22 rifle and Ruger MKIV pistol.
The .357mag sounds like the best match to your application.
18 posted on 01/01/2022 10:11:45 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: Paul R.

Always double tap; always.


20 posted on 01/01/2022 10:15:23 PM PST by Repeal The 17th (Get out of the matrix and get a real life.)
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To: Paul R.

Really the .223 carbine is ideal for this.

That said a 9mm carbine would work well. Not at 100 yards. 9mm is a 50 yard cartridge MAX. It’s really better suited for 25 yards down to contact distance.

If you want to split the difference a 357 Magnum carbine might be an option as well. 158gr bullets loaded hot will hit 1800+ FPS from a rifle barrel. Should take the starch right out of any overly aggressive canines.


21 posted on 01/01/2022 10:16:01 PM PST by JamesP81 (The Democrat Party is a criminal organization.)
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To: Paul R.
...I DO have a .223 carbine, but a larger, lower velocity, relatively inexpensive slug makes more sense to me, here...

I could make a lifetime of shots like you describe with the .223 for less ammo cost than any 9mm carbine (new gun plus ammo) and have the huge benefit of more practice with the more capable gun.

BUT, if you want to justify a new gun -- get a nice one and have fun.

24 posted on 01/01/2022 10:23:07 PM PST by CurlyDave
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To: Paul R.

If you want to save money go with the 223. That caliber is great for varmints and widely used as such. The 9mm in a carbine is great all around cartridge. Yes it’ll do varmint work at your range extremely well.


25 posted on 01/01/2022 10:23:12 PM PST by fightin kentuckian
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To: Paul R.

9 mm pistol caliber carbines are nice but they have a lot of drop so ballistics kind of suck. If you want a nice one the CZ scorpion evo is a solid choice and very fun to shoot. If it were me, I’d choose the venerable M1 carbine. Light (about 5lbs), compact and the ballistics are much more suitable for your application. They are still in production and there are a number of companies making them including Auto Ordnance and Inland. Another decent choice would be an AR-15 M4 pattern carbine in 300 black out. The 300 blk round is available in subsonic versions for suppressed use which would punch your ticket for lower power and lower noise but it is still available in a sonic version that is comparable to the Russian 7.62x39 in the AK47. If you have an AR-15 pattern rifle you cab buy an upper receiver and bolt/carrier that drops into the AR-15 lower to save money. There are also 9mm uppers for the AR-15 lowers


27 posted on 01/01/2022 10:28:53 PM PST by rdcbn1
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To: Paul R.

Ruger PC Charger would be my preference, but if you really want a carbine, you could get its biological cousin the Ruger PC Carbine.


28 posted on 01/01/2022 10:30:22 PM PST by RainMan (Democrats ... making war against America since April 12, 1861)
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To: Paul R.

Been down the road your going, 9mm, 45acp, 44mag, 357 carbines. Then I discovered the 300 blackout in 10.5 barrel. Very versatile platform, esp if you are a reloader and great for getting into suppressors.


29 posted on 01/01/2022 10:31:21 PM PST by JohnKinAK
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To: Paul R.

I have a Beretta 9mm carbine, and have shot several other brands. They aren’t the most accurate things in the world. A good 22 or 22magnum really outshines them considerably. They are in that catagory of neither fish nor fowl. To powerful and not accurate enough for squirrels or small varmints, and too weak for deer of larger stuff. A 22 hornet would probably fit your needs IMHO.


32 posted on 01/01/2022 10:52:17 PM PST by Clarancebeaks
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To: Paul R.

5 rules of a gun fight:

1) gun beats no gun.
2) fast beats slow
3) a hit beats a miss
4) bigger bullets beat smaller bullets
5) two holes beat one hole

To your specific question, I would agree with either 9 mm or .357 mag. Both are widely available, both work well in pistol and/or carbine. Both are often reloaded.

I am of the opinion that there is a slight advantage to the .357 because when shooting / practicing gets expensive, you can also use .38 special.


34 posted on 01/01/2022 11:02:51 PM PST by taxcontrol (The choice is clear - either live as a slave on your knees or die as a free citizen on your feet.)
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To: Paul R.

If decibels are a big concern, a .45ACP carbine is going to be somewhat less loud than a 9mm carbine due to it’s lower operating pressure and velocity. Both will be quieter than when fired out of a pistol and a lot quieter than a .223. Don’t expect either to act like Thor’s hammer shooting coyotes or large dogs, though. Shot placement is still key.


35 posted on 01/01/2022 11:03:48 PM PST by Sparticus (Primary the Tuesday group!)
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To: Paul R.
"...I DO have a .223 carbine, but a larger, lower velocity, relatively inexpensive slug makes more sense to me, here. ..."

Your sense is wrong.

39 posted on 01/01/2022 11:18:22 PM PST by Paal Gulli
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