'Europe's oldest battle' in Germany's Tollense Valley 3,250 years ago may actually have been a brutal MASSACRE of 1,400 Bronze Age merchants

UK Daily Mail ^ | October 26, 2020 | Joe Pinkstone

[RatRipper]

Zero. . . did not pay close enough attention to the dating. C19 and Red Badger got me into the correct millennium!!!

[Mariner]

Like the American Indians of old attacking a wagon train?

[PAR35]

Where would the merchants been going from or to? There isn’t much around there today, and even less back then.

1800 merchants are going to need a lot of customers.

[wildcard_redneck]

The poor merchants were probably behind on their taxes to the local robber baron.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks C19fan.

The rest of the Tollense Valley keyword:

• Lactose tolerance spread throughout Europe in only a few thousand years [2020]
• Lost in Combat? [3000 years ago] [2019]
• For Peaceable Humans, Don't Look to Prehistory [2016]
• Unexpected and Gruesome Battle of 1250 BC Involved 4,000 Men from Across Northern Europe [2016]
• "Early Bronze Age battle site found on German river bank" [2011]
• Early Bronze Age battle site found on German river bank [2011]
• Archaeologists find bones from prehistoric war in Germany [2008]

[wildcard_redneck]

“That’s a hell of a conclusion to jump to. What are the odds that almost 2,000 Israelites would be wandering around that part of Europe at that time?“

I think that post was sarcasm.

[Grimmy]

The more archaeologists “re-imagine” their works, the harder it gets to take them seriously.

Couldn’t have been warriors because doesn’t match imaginary image of warriors. Got it.

Had to be merchants because some of the skeletons showed signs of having had to carry heavy loads. Got it.

Warriors traveled in bands with their own slaves and other type persons playing the support and logistics role all throughout known history.

But that can’t be the case in this pre-history dig.

[calenel]

“What are the odds that almost 2,000 Israelites would be wandering around that part of Europe at that time?”

The article states 1400. Now it has been inflated almost 50%. Soon it will be 10s of thousands.

At that point in history it was probably proto-Germans killing other proto-Germans. But it could even have been Slavs or Celts.

[SpaceBar]

Interesting subject, horribly written article.

[BenLurkin]

Barbarian
Lives
Matter

[heartwood]

The archaeologist concluded it was a gathering of merchants because some of them showed skeletal evidence of a lifetime of carrying burdens.

Doesn’t seem sufficient. Isotope or molecular evidence that they were not native?

They could have been builders, local slaves, litter bearers, miners.

1400 people would be a large town for Germany back then.

Large gatherings back then could have been religious primarily, trade second.

Maybe it was a raid on a village, a sacrifice, or a mass punishment.

[Tallguy]

Probably 2 long-distance trading caravans with their attendant security details just ‘bumped into’ one another. Or more likely 1 ambushed the other at the river crossing.

The bodies of the dead were stripped of all metals, so guessing that they were trading in Tin or Copper — the component metals of Bronze. Tin deposits are pretty rare and so the metal ore usually comes from great distances.

Another interesting bit: the combatants were asymmetrically armed with one side using flint arrow heads while the others used bronze.

[glorgau]

> I wonder if DNA analysis would find them to be Jewish merchants?

Wie Geht’s Mein Herr!

3250 years ago was before the first temple was even built. I doubt the were “jews”.

[Redmen4ever]

As a German American, I demand reparations!

[PIF]

Right in the middle of the bronze age - they were likely transporting copper and tin ingots. Copper was possibly from Upper Peninsula of Michigan and 99% pure (today’s copper is 2-4%) somebody mined over 231,000 tons out during 3,000BC-1,000BC - not the locals (that would be 4620 rail ore cars at 50 tons each). None of it has been accounted for.

Copper was more valuable than gold as weapons (and more) were made from it. So if those robbers heard about the merchants cargo of copper and tin ingots their was lots of incentive to take it and to make sure no one lived to squeal. For the merchants safety was in numbers, but they just didn’t have the numbers to fend off the likely thousands in the attacking band of robbers.

[RatRipper]

Have apologized profusely already for not paying enough attention to the date. You are correct.

[Pete from Shawnee Mission]

This was a battle in northern Germany not far from Danzig.
Any copper would have been from European sources. Some Tin was found. Might have been from Wales or The alps.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/slaughter-bridge-uncovering-colossal-bronze-age-battle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tollense_valley_battlefield

[PIF]

Then who took the missing 230,000 tons of pure copper during the height of the Bronze Age? There is more than ample evidence that people went between NA, Europe, and Near East in those times

[Pete from Shawnee Mission]

“Then who took the missing 230,000 tons of pure copper during the height of the Bronze Age? There is more than ample evidence that people went between NA, Europe, and Near East in those times”

PIF: The discussion here was about a bronze age massacre in Northern Germany and someone posited an assumption that they had copper and it was stolen based on the fact that little or no copper was found on with the dead. Then there was a further assumption that the assumed missing copper that was not found with the dead came from North America.

Get your sources together and post a thread on the subject of North American Copper trade with Europe and let me know.

[CJ Wolf]

could have been marauders with supplies

Supplies!