Posted on 12/07/2019 12:18:50 PM PST by SeekAndFind
My point is that the article’s content is nothing new. Some historian thinks they have come up with a new explanation whereas it has been out there for the last 78 years or so.
No joke, a Nazi Party official in Nanking (I think his last name was Rabe) intervened on multiple occasions to save Chinese civilians from atrocities, and communicated with Berlin about the horrors he had seen.
Interestingly, even the Japanese realized they had screwed up at Nanking...when subsequent Chinese cities were taken, the MPs were sent in ahead of the occupation troops, and when the troops finally came in they were accompanied by their senior officers.
I guess irony is lost on you.
So true. Che-— what a monster. You know what you pointed out even exists among a generation of young Cuban Americans (the ones, notably who supported obamaumao and his cuban/Raul Castro— who is a paedo, btw—gambit). Che’ is a potemkin fake hero to ocasio no cortex types who work the propaganda. He was a sadistic psychopathic killer- who especially liked killing children, teen boys in particular.
This generation was an active target of cuban espionage— to divide them from their parents historical real life experience with communists/Fidelistas. Goal: to make them apply the natural “children revolt against parents” inclinations, and expand them for political backlash to weaken the anti-communist ex-pats. Which they have done for some time, in their “liberal” press. Humberto Fontavo could tell us a lot about this. Now they are are older and the “proof” is more evident to them, the more mature of that generation are changing.
That’s a pretty mean thing to say.
President Roosevelt, Admiral Stark, and the Unsent Warning to Pearl Harbor: A Research Note Burtness, Paul, S. (Northern Illinois University) and Ober, Warren U. (University of Waterloo, Ontario), Australian Journal of Politics and History, Volume 57, Number 4, 2011, pp. 580-588.
Or a bit later, also by Burtness and Ober:
Provocation and Angst: FDR, Japan, Pearl Harbor, and the Entry into War in the Pacific The Hawaiian Journal of History, Vol. 51, 2017, pp. 91-114.
Often confusion reigns - there were two (2) messages. The first is the so-called "Midnight" message, the second is the "Marshall" message.
The Marshall message is the one delivered by the RCA messenger some time after the Pearl Harbor attack had ended. The "Midnight" message (by these lights the extremely important message) has never been found.
From the Proceeding of the Roberts Commission (24PHA1755), in the section SUMMARY and RECOMMENDATIONS, paragraph (2) is found:
"(2) The Army and Naval Commands had received a general war warning on November 27th, but a special war warning sent out by the War Department at midnight December 7th to the Army was not received until some hours after the attack on that date. ..."
As perhaps another insight from Knox, on 24PHA1753 is found:
"Of course, the best means of defense against air attack consists of fighter planes. Lack of an adequate number of this type of aircraft available to the Army for defense of the Island is due to the diversion of this type before the outbreak of the war, to British, the Chinese, the Dutch and the Russians. ..."
Or ... Pearl is screaming for P-40s, PBYs, ... Washington (Stark, Marshall, Arnold, ... Knox and Stimson) all approved the diversions of these front-line types.
Seems others first ... America whenever.
And, lest we forget, that Undeclared War in the Atlantic started when?
RE: Not the “government”... the FDR perpetual machine politics, and all of his pals. He had to force the Rockefellers/Standard Oil to stop selling crucial additives to the Nazis- one small hugely important detail.
And what’s wrong with that?
Sanctions against the Nazis? Heck, we’re doing the same thing today under Trump with North Korea and Iran.
I hope you’re not saying that we should have CONTINUED to allow Standard Oil to sell crucial additives to the Nazis.
RE: Because the a@@hole FDR with his buddies in Rockefeller and the other “sisters” of Oil, put an embargo on the growing Japan’s oil
Of course. But the article says that we did it for a REASON. It was because of Japan’s expansionism. It was because of Japan’s invasion of China ( an ally then ) and the subsequent Nanjing Rape and Massacre among others.
I hope you’re not saying that in light of these, we should not be sanctioning Imperial Japan.
If so, then let’s be consistent, we should stops our sanctions against North Korea and Iran right now and Obama was right to do so.
RE: Some historian thinks they have come up with a new explanation whereas it has been out there for the last 78 years or so.
If you read the other posts in this thread, you will see some FR “historians” ( note the quotes ) mention that in a sense, Japan HAD to attack Pearl Harbor because of what FDR and his business pals did. In other words, we were just BEGGING for a fight and we got it. In other words, America FORCED its hand, otherwise, there would have been peace and the war was unnecessary.
THAT is why I posted this thread. There are too many people who disagree with the most well known historical reasons.
Yes, I have also heard that explanation many times.
It’s an excellent film.
Admiral Yaamamoto had been posted as a naval attaché to the US. He knew there was a lot more to the US then the Japanese decision makers realized. That was true in general for many of the naval officers, their service gave them a better understanding of what Japan would be up against. The Army officers for the most part had hardly been out of the area. If they had been out of Japan, their foreign experience had been China & Manchuria, they looked at possible opponents through that lens. (The Soviet-Japan border clashes in the 1930s were a huge shock to the Japanese Army. Apparently the lesson didn’t stick.)
You miss the point entirely. FDR was a german socialist in intent and direction. He had to be FORCED to stop his supporters, Standard/Mobil and a whole lot else from doing business with the Nazis. HE had to be forced. Get it?
There was nothing wrong with stopping the Rockefellers enabling the Nazis, as well as stopping FORD, and many others doing the same. The information on FORD alone is appalling (and WE paid for it, the a@@hole was building trucks for the nazis, his plants were bombed, and he got millions for the damage out of the US). The point is the FDR had to be forced.
You want to see some other inside damning evidence-read: “In the Garden of the Beasts”.. Erik Larson. re: FDR’s first appointed ambassador to Germany. The state dept filled with button down nazi loving anti-semites with “impressive” names, from the financial US elite. Glad to profit off war. To be sure they were not in favor of jews profiting off war. People like Soros of today.
Were it not for Churchill, the Royal German Battenburgs would have been glad to have given over to Hitler, and they like the Theissens, Krupps and the Ruhr valley war machine thought Hitler could be managed/appeased—to the point they would have made a deal (and it was Edward maneuvered to being a Reich’s Chancellor of the UK).
It took Churchill to massage FDR into doing what his elite socialist/german pacifying supporters would not do- go to war against germany. Japan was easy way to do it (”those little yellow deceitful”..etc). The AntiFA come to mind as they falsely claim anti-fascism when they are, in fact, the brownshirts of the DNC Leftist fascists (there being such a thing)- street apparat of Brennan imho.
Well researched on Ford: https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/wall_street/chapter_06.htm
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