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Does America oppose female genital mutilation – or not?
https://spectator.us ^ | November 21, 2018 | Douglas Murray

Posted on 11/21/2018 6:52:04 AM PST by Enterprise

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To: Sam Gamgee

No. It means they can’t be charged in FEDERAL court.


81 posted on 11/21/2018 11:24:52 AM PST by Alberta's Child ("The Russians escaped while we weren't watching them ... like Russians will.")
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To: cymbeline

I read the first person account in the book Slave written by a Somali tribal girl of how it was performed in her tribe. Pretty ghastly. Her sister lost her first child in childbirth because of it. Other than this barbaric thing, her life was pretty happy - they lived mostly according to simple tribal tradition with a few Muslim things added. But then richer Muslims stormed into the village and captured young girls for slavery elsewhere. This is a contemporary account.


82 posted on 11/21/2018 11:58:21 AM PST by Yaelle
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To: Labyrinthos

Your patient explanation is wonderful but I still don’t quite understand how you can have a fundamental right to kill your child. I’m all stuck on the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Maybe that is for another thread.


83 posted on 11/21/2018 11:59:57 AM PST by Yaelle
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To: oldvirginian; KC_for_Freedom; Sam Gamgee

That gives it some basis for Federal intervention, then.
But it should still be handled by the state or local government.


84 posted on 11/21/2018 12:17:06 PM PST by Little Ray (Freedom Before Security!)
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To: Yaelle
I still don’t quite understand how you can have a fundamental right to kill your child. I’m all stuck on the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," is from the Declaration of Independence. The 5th Amendment to the Constitution refers to "life, liberty, and property."

The SCOTUS in Roe vs. Wade decided that an unborn child is not a constitutionally protected "life" within the meaning of the 5th Amendment until the third trimester, and therefore, a women's constitutional right to liberty beats an unborn child's right to life, at least until the third trimester, and even then there are exceptions (health of the mother, rape, and incest -- and don't get me going on that).

85 posted on 11/21/2018 12:33:21 PM PST by Labyrinthos
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To: Little Ray

I agree that State agencies should have handled it.
The Interstate Commerce Clause has been so abused that the original intent has been forgotten.
The judge was right to dismiss the case IMVHO.


86 posted on 11/21/2018 12:41:35 PM PST by oldvirginian ( Buckle up kids, rough road ahead.)
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To: PeterPrinciple

True, that is why I stated what the source was. The question you could easily ask is what is the true state of cosmetic surgery these days? Could they even do a fix? I do know that reattaching nerves is a very chancy gambit, so I believe the TV story took significant liberty with reality.

However the issue they were dealing with, that the girl, now at an age where she could be sexually active and wanted to undo what was done to her, but at the same time was willing to go along with her parents who wanted to leave her as she was. She did not expect to have her nerves reconnected, as she was initially only concerned with the physical appearance. (She was still a minor, so her parents could control the use of a medical procedure)

I am aware of all the issues with the use of a piece of fiction to use as an analogy, but that was why the show picked this topic— PS, the issue was being truthful or lying. She wanted the reversal without her mother’s permission, and got it because the doctor considered it a medical necessity, but after her mother showed up they had to face the religious concerns of her family.

Then the doctor decided to reattach the nerves during the surgery and not tell anyone, but the girl could obviously tell that things were different. At that point she elected to keep this to herself and allow her mother to believe she was still sexually insensitive.


87 posted on 11/21/2018 1:07:53 PM PST by KC_for_Freedom
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To: DLfromthedesert

Then what we need is comprehensive education for the parents and children about cleaning habits, not more genital mutilation.

It’s the 21st century - we have soap and clean water.


88 posted on 11/21/2018 2:20:46 PM PST by quasimodo_79
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To: Labyrinthos

Let’s just say that I deeply disagree with the Supreme Court that not being able to consent automatically gives up your right to life under the constitution, shall we?

However, I understand abortion will always be with us. Legal or not, and my push to allow more babies to be allowed to live is on a different path, more hearts, minds, and respect than legal, which doesn’t necessarily save one life.


89 posted on 11/21/2018 3:06:50 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: allendale

What hedonistic values does this judge exhibit? How is following the Constitution in anf way ‘progressive jurisprudence’?


90 posted on 11/21/2018 8:25:18 PM PST by Svartalfiar
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To: alloysteel
Female genital mutilation falls under the heading of “cruel and unusual punishment”.

There are also many laws on the books EVERYWHERE regarding the non-consensual inflicting of mutilation or injury to persons who may be constrained and in a position of helplessness, against their will.


Um, how does it do that? Fgm isn't a punishment for a crime. Sure it's cruel, it is unusual, and it is a punishment, but it isn't cruel and unusual punishment as per the Constitution.

And why didn't the prosecution utilize any of those charges? Mutilation, injury, torture, etc, to a minor should easily have several dozen statutes the State could use. Either this will show up in court under the proper charges, or there's something fishy going on on the prosecutor's team.
91 posted on 11/21/2018 8:31:14 PM PST by Svartalfiar
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To: cymbeline

the physical parts that enable her to have them are removed...


92 posted on 11/22/2018 5:53:23 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Svartalfiar

Under whatever guise, he has found a way to exonerate those who practice female genital mutilation to go free and unpunished. He has validated them. He is not so dumb as to not realize the end result of his actions. He has in the final analysis ruled and is with them. Despite his robes and the sanctified status the judiciary has in this country, it is still all about power and outcomes. A lawyer with a briefcase can steal more money than a thousand men with guns. Similarly a determined appointed judge with a gavel can alter the culture more than a duly elected Congress.


93 posted on 11/22/2018 6:53:17 AM PST by allendale (.)
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To: Sam Gamgee
So does this then set precedent that parents can now NOT be charged for FGM. So America is now a FGM promoting nation?

No, the judge condemned the practice and said that it could be banned under state law, but that nothing in Congress's enumerated powers covers this federal law.

94 posted on 11/22/2018 3:01:01 PM PST by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: Lurking Libertarian

Thanks for that. Still a serious issue, and it still burns me this is practices in the US.


95 posted on 11/22/2018 3:08:54 PM PST by Sam Gamgee
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To: Alberta's Child
There would have been no Federal crime if these women had killed their daughters

They were taken across state lines to perform the battery. How is that not interstate, and thus federal?

96 posted on 11/22/2018 3:10:58 PM PST by Teacher317 (We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men)
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To: Teacher317

They weren’t abducted. They were brought by their parents. That’s a major distinction in Federal crimes.


97 posted on 11/22/2018 5:32:17 PM PST by Alberta's Child ("The Russians escaped while we weren't watching them ... like Russians will.")
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