Posted on 01/29/2017 1:51:53 AM PST by iowamark
Michael Klarman talked about his book The Framers' Coup: The Making of the United States Constitution, in which he recalls the drafting of the U.S. Constitution, from its tenuous start, according to the author the Philadelphia convention almost didn’t occur, to the many competing interests and internal debates that marked the Constitution’s creation. Michael Klarman spoke with Patrick Spero at the National Constitution Center.
(Excerpt) Read more at c-span.org ...
I agree, good work.
I like to point out a personal observation regarding government.
Government is inherently and potentially destructive.
Government is like a parasite in that, in the beginning of the relationship, the suffering is insignificant. However, after the parasite goes through the pupal stage and emerges as an adult it begins to eat the host (us).
I wouldn’t call it a *coup* ....more like a *vision*.
Not so sure I agree with the premis. The subject has been studied by some great minds, never heard it described as a coup. Rebellion, possibly. Definitly defending the right of a free people to govern themselves.
Blml
It often happens that people do their best work under the pressure of adverse circumstances. Madison’s Notes on the Constitutional Convention give the clear impression that the Framers were determined to get things right and knew that they had little or no margin for error.
Harvard Prof Klarman does not appear to be supportive of the Electoral College which he terms a “power play” by the smaller populated States.
Except the electoral system was the work of a New Yorker, A. Hamilton. Keep the electoral college or face tyranny!
Great analysis! But can the people see?
Klarman does make the point that the Founders were truly the elite, highly-educated of their day, but that they were truly public spirited, determined to “get things right” as you say. The general elite of the day (lawyers, doctors, etc.) overwhelmingly supported ratification.
Contrast this with today where the elite, highly-educated are often viewed skeptically, if not with disdain, with whom we would NOT trust with re-working our government.
“That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men . . .”
George Washington said it best: “Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.”
In 1839, John Quincy Adams was invited by the New York Historical Society to deliver the “Jubilee” Address honoring the 50th Anniversary of the Inauguration of George Washington. He delivered that lengthy discourse which should be read by all who love liberty, for it traced the history of the development of the ideas underlying and the actions leading to the establishment of the Constitution which structured the United States government. His 50th-year summation seems to be a better source for understanding the kind of government the Founders formed than those of recent historians and politicians. He addresses the ideas of “democracy” and “republic” throughout, but here are some of his concluding remarks:
“Every change of a President of the United States, has exhibited some variety of policy from that of his predecessor. In more than one case, the change has extended to political and even to moral principle; but the policy of the country has been fashioned far more by the influences of public opinion, and the prevailing humors in the two Houses of Congress, than by the judgment, the will, or the principles of the President of the United States. The President himself is no more than a representative of public opinion at the time of his election; and as public opinion is subject to great and frequent fluctuations, he must accommodate his policy to them; or the people will speedily give him a successor; or either House of Congress will effectually control his power. It is thus, and in no other sense that the Constitution of the United States is democratic - for the government of our country, instead of a Democracy the most simple, is the most complicated government on the face of the globe. From the immense extent of our territory, the difference of manners, habits, opinions, and above all, the clashing interests of the North, South, East, and West, public opinion formed by the combination of numerous aggregates, becomes itself a problem of compound arithmetic, which nothing but the result of the popular elections can solve.
“It has been my purpose, Fellow-Citizens, in this discourse to show:-
“1. That this Union was formed by a spontaneous movement of the people of thirteen English Colonies; all subjects of the King of Great Britain - bound to him in allegiance, and to the British empire as their country. That the first object of this Union,was united resistance against oppression, and to obtain from the government of their country redress of their wrongs.
“2. That failing in this object, their petitions having been spurned, and the oppressions of which they complained, aggravated beyond endurance, their Delegates in Congress, in their name and by their authority, issued the Declaration of Independence - proclaiming them to the world as one people, absolving them from their ties and oaths of allegiance to their king and country - renouncing that country; declared the UNITED Colonies, Independent States, and announcing that this ONE PEOPLE of thirteen united independent states, by that act, assumed among the powers of the earth, that separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature’s God entitled them.
“3. That in justification of themselves for this act of transcendent power, they proclaimed the principles upon which they held all lawful government upon earth to be founded - which principles were, the natural, unalienable, imprescriptible rights of man, specifying among them, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - that the institution of government is to secure to men in society the possession of those rights: that the institution, dissolution, and reinstitution of government, belong exclusively to THE PEOPLE under a moral responsibility to the Supreme Ruler of the universe; and that all the just powers of government are derived from the consent of the governed.
“4. That under this proclamation of principles, the dissolution of allegiance to the British king, and the compatriot connection with the people of the British empire, were accomplished; and the one people of the United States of America, became one separate sovereign independent power, assuming an equal station among the nations of the earth.
“5. That this one people did not immediately institute a government for themselves. But instead of it, their delegates in Congress, by authority from their separate state legislatures, without voice or consultation of the people, instituted a mere confederacy.
“6. That this confederacy totally departed from the principles of the Declaration of independence, and substituted instead of the constituent power of the people, an assumed sovereignty of each separate state, as the source of all its authority.
“7. That as a primitive source of power, this separate state sovereignty,was not only a departure from the principles of the Declaration of Independence, but directly contrary to, and utterly incompatible with them.
“8. That the tree was made known by its fruits. That after five years wasted in its preparation, the confederation dragged out a miserable existence of eight years more, and expired like a candle in the socket, having brought the union itself to the verge of dissolution.
“9. That the Constitution of the United States was a return to the principles of the Declaration of independence, and the exclusive constituent power of the people. That it was the work of the ONE PEOPLE of the United States; and that those United States, though doubled in numbers, still constitute as a nation, but ONE PEOPLE.
“10. That this Constitution, making due allowance for the imperfections and errors incident to all human affairs, has under all the vicissitudes and changes of war and peace, been administered upon those same principles, during a career of fifty years.
“11. That its fruits have been, still making allowance for human imperfection, a more perfect union, established justice, domestic tranquility, provision for the common defence, promotion of the general welfare, and the enjoyment of the blessings of liberty by the constituent people, and their posterity to the present day.
“And now the future is all before us, and Providence our guide.”
In an earlier paragraph, he had stated: “But this institution was republican, and even democratic. And here not to be misunderstood, I mean by democratic, a government, the administration of which must always be rendered comfortable to that predominating public opinion . . . and by republican I mean a government reposing, not upon the virtues or the powers of any one man - not upon that honor, which Montesquieu lays down as the fundamental principle of monarchy - far less upon that fear which he pronounces the basis of despotism; but upon that virtue which he, a noble of aristocratic peerage, and the subject of an absolute monarch, boldly proclaims as a fundamental principle of republican government. The Constitution of the United States was republican and democratic - but the experience of all former ages had shown that of all human governments, democracy was the most unstable, fluctuating and short-lived; and it was obvious that if virtue - the virtue of the people, was the foundation of republican government, the stability and duration of the government must depend upon the stability and duration of the virtue by which it is sustained.”
______________________ (End of excerpts)
See Post 14 below.
The success of the Constitution made it a primary basis for the legitimacy of the federal government and the country's identity. The United States is thus said to have become the first creedal nation, meaning that the country is founded on a set of abstract propositions about human nature and self-government that are reduced to practice in the Constitution.
Yet what happens when the elite abandons faith in the national creed and its attendant ideas? They unsettle the country's regard for that elite, which this year triggered the tsunami of populist discontent that put Donald Trump in the White House. For those who categorically disdain populism in any form as unAmerican, I offer the first three words of the Constitution: "We the People."
One of the greatest dangers which the Constitution does not explicitly address is the bureaucracies. Voters have only indirect means to discipline inept and corrupt non-elected bureaucrats.
agreed. The concept of “we the people” dates back to the founding. The notion of “deplorables” is the creation of the present day elite.
Two words, providential purpose. That is, I believe, the best explaination for the United States of America up to this very moment.
I read some reviews five weeks ago and bought this just prior to Christmas. The “coup” term is used to indicate that while the impetus was to reform the Articles of Confederation, once gathered, the wholesale new governmental form was what was settled on by the participants. That was not the pronounced purpose and as such, it was a coup against the Articles.
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