Apple's use of 'sapphire' in iPhone camera lens questioned in new tests

The Verge ^ | 10/4/2016 | Tom Warren

[Shanghai Dan]

Apple has been using sapphire on its iPhone camera lenses for a few years now since the launch of the iPhone 5S, but it might not be as scratch resistant as you'd expect. A new video raises questions over Apple's use of sapphire in its iPhone camera lens, and includes scratch tests to rate its durability. While Apple claims it uses sapphire crystal in its iPhone lens, tests by YouTuber JerryRigEverything show that Apple could be using a more cost effective sapphire laminate on top of regular glass.

JerryRigEverything tested Apple's iPhone lens with an XRF machine and electron microscope, and concluded that Apple doesn't use pure sapphire in its lenses. The underside of the lens contains less sapphire than the exposed part, and a scratching comparison with a Tissot sapphire watch showed that the lens cover will scratch at a level 6 on Mohs Scale of Hardness, compared to level 8 for the Tissot watch.

[Shanghai Dan]

The Slashdot thread about it here. Lots of very good, science-based comments specifically about how it most likely is NOT sapphire, and what the implications are.

[IncPen]

Bait.

Yawn.

[roadcat]

Much ado about nothing. 5s, years ago. Welcome to FR.

[ETL]

Sapphire is a gemstone variety of the mineral corundum, an aluminium oxide. Whilst typically associated with the color blue, natural “fancy” sapphires also occur in yellow, purple, orange, and green colors; “parti sapphires” show two or more colors. The only color which sapphire cannot be is red - as red colored corundum is called ruby,[2] another corundum variety.

Trace amounts of elements such as iron, titanium, chromium, copper, or magnesium present during formation are responsible for the color of a sapphire. Chromium impurities in corundum yield a pink hue.

Commonly, natural sapphires are cut and polished into gemstones and worn in jewelry. They also may be created synthetically in laboratories for industrial or decorative purposes in large crystal boules.

Because of the remarkable hardness of sapphires – 9 on the Mohs scale (the third hardest mineral, after diamond at 10 and moissanite at 9.5) – sapphires are also used in some non-ornamental applications, such infrared optical components; high-durability windows; wristwatch crystals and movement bearings; and very thin electronic wafers, which are used as the insulating substrates of very special-purpose solid-state electronics (especially integrated circuits and GaN-based LEDs).

Sapphire is the birthstone for September and the gem of the 5th and 45th anniversaries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapphire

[Swordmaker]

FUD article on whether the entire lens on Apple's iPhone cameras are made of Sapphire (no one ever said they were) or they are just covered with a very thin Sapphire cover. Quote from the article: "tests . . .show that Apple could be using a more cost effective sapphire laminate on top of regular glass." All the sapphire needs to do is protect the lens from ordinary, everyday scratching, not a laboratory grade scratch testing machine. The sapphire cover does that quite well. Properly formulated glass lenses have a higher index of refraction than does Sapphire so are a better choice to make lenses out of, otherwise there would be a lot of high end lenses made from transparent artificial sapphire because it is easy to make. However, there are not any companies that make lenses out of pure sapphire because doped glass, or even some plastics, are a better choice to bend light. — PING!

Apple FUD Article
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[Swordmaker]

Incidentally, Apple cannot be doing this to save money. Apple owns all those 240 pound boules left over from the failed company that was attempting to make iPhone 5S screens. . . even the ones that eventually cracked. Hundreds of them. There is enough clear usable sapphire in those boules to make camera lenses for billions of iPhones.

These boules are just lying there, not being used for anything, except some have been repurposed for the upper end Apple Watch crystals which shows they are certainly usable for camera lenses, were sapphire a good lens material, which it isn't.

[Mark17]

Keep up the good work bro. 👑

[dayglored]

> Shanghai Dan -- Since 2016-04-03

> Welcome to FR. (by roadcat)

Oh my, "Shanghai Dan hasn't created an about page." But it appears to me, from SD's posting history, that he has a deep fixation, even an obsession, about Apple products. He spends an inordinate amount of energy and FreeRepublic bandwidth trashing Apple products and starting flamewars with Swordmaker (list manager of the Apple Ping List). He obviously is unaware that that sort of misbehavior (whether directed towards the products of Apple, Microsoft, Samsung, or any other outfit) is frowned upon on this site. So I'll quote the owner of the site:

"I don’t see any reason whatsoever to be having flamewars on FR over computer products. Those who have a problem with Apple should just not buy the product and that takes care of that. Don’t come to FR to flame those who like the product. That’s just dumb. Who cares what computer products people use."

Got that, Dan?

Now, you would think a grown man posting on a conservative forum would have better things to do. So I am persuaded that he's actually a juvenile, sequestered in his Mom's basement, hunched over his PC, furiously typing his anti-Apple-product screeds and occasionally posting a comment about something else, for cover.

All I have to say is, Welcome to FR, ya n00b. And while you're at it, get a life, the rest of us are bored to death with your crap.

Have a nice evening.

[Shanghai Dan]

Have a nice evening as well!

In the mean time, I guess the fact that on this test, the S7 had bettery battery life will go unchallenged. And I guess facts and insults (which always start from Swordmaker) are anathema to Apple fans?

I may be a “n00b” but at least I treat people with decorum until they do otherwise.

Old fart.

:)

[dayglored]

> Have a nice evening as well!

Thank you, I'm having a fine one.

> In the mean time, I guess the fact that on this test, the S7 had bettery battery life will go unchallenged.

Dan, I am unimpressed by people who spend their time measuring the length of their penises and bragging about whether their own is longer than someone else's.

I consider battery life comparison crowing, and most other "mine is bigger than yours" braggadocio, a waste of time. There are published specifications on all these things, so why is it a big freakin' deal? Specsmanship is bullsh!t. I've been an engineer designing products from consumer to industrial to spacecraft since the 1970's and I get to say that.

> And I guess facts and insults (which always start from Swordmaker) are anathema to Apple fans?

Facts are often pretty thin in the so-called technical articles written by hired whores for the purpose of gathering clicks. I should advise you Dan, you can't believe everything you read on the Internet. Even if it looks all official and cool. In fact, -especially- if it looks all official and cool.

FWIW, Swordmaker gets insults thrown at him by a dozen or more anti-Apple trolls such as yourself nearly daily. The fact that he keeps his composure as well as he does is a testament to his forebearance in the face of a lot of insane hatred. And while he, like all of us, gets tired and frustrated dealing with that crap and occasionally blows past his limits, I daresay having read a number of energetic exchanges between the two of you, your characterization that he "always starts" is not quite accurate. But I'm not interested in keeping score. I just am appalled by the stupid flamewars, and wish people could do like JimRob stated in the quote in my last comment, and and just drop it. That's all.

> I may be a “n00b” but at least I treat people with decorum until they do otherwise.

I look forward to your continued and even perhaps improved decorum.

> Old fart. :)

Hmmm. You must have read my FR profile page. Well, I'll own up to that. :-)

[Shanghai Dan]

Please note:

I have not tossed an insult or name at Swordmaker unless he first started tossing them around at me. I’ve been insulted a dozen times by him, and I think I’ve done it once (calling him Swordmaker Clinton, after her called me Shanghai Kaine).

I’ll maintain decorum, and argue facts - but when mud gets thrown around (a lot, by some of the Apple folks especially), I’ll start tossing it back.

[Swordmaker]

I have not tossed an insult or name at Swordmaker unless he first started tossing them around at me. I’ve been insulted a dozen times by him, and I think I’ve done it once (calling him Swordmaker Clinton, after her called me Shanghai Kaine).

Absolutely FALSE!

[dayglored]

> I’ll maintain decorum, and argue facts - but when mud gets thrown around (a lot, by some of the Apple folks especially), I’ll start tossing it back.

At the risk of sounding like a REALLY old fart, let me encourage you to manfully rise above the fray:

1. Don't post troll threads based on clickbait "articles" written for the purpose of getting clicks. Sure, there are differences between products; engineers like me design them that way. Marketers love to point at such differences to show how great their products are. That's all fine. But tech writers whores take such differences (and maybe run some half-assed "tests") and write clickbait articles.

   Take the high road, and resist the temptation to troll with such crap. It's tiresome.

2. If Swordmaker or anyone else throws mud at you, don't throw it back. Sure, it's fun to get all muddy or have a food fight, but what does it accomplish? NOTHING! This is just an internet forum. It's not like your food fight is going to settle anything. It's a total waste of your life. Life is precious, and limited. Trust me on that, I'm an old fart, and I know.

   Seriously, take the high road, and back off if someone gets pissy. And you get to feel like you did the right thing, which is cool.

3. Lighten up. None of these flamewars matters five minutes after the comment is posted. It's just hot air. Spend your time with someone you love, or write some poetry or music or do a drawing, or take a walk in the woods or around the corner. If nothing else, switch over to another FR thread and read (and comment) about a different topic.

You might well ask, if this is all so inconsequential, why then am I typing this? Good question. I'm done. Enjoy the rest of your evening. :-)

[roadcat]

I’ll maintain decorum, and argue facts - but when mud gets thrown around (a lot, by some of the Apple folks especially), I’ll start tossing it back.

The Apple folks do not start these flame wars. Look at the recent VP debate for a comparison. Pence was trying to respond to moderator questions, and had difficulty doing so because Kaine kept interrupting Pence. About 72 times he interrupted during Pence's time to speak. This is akin to what happens here on FR.

Apple threads are constantly interrupted by anti-Apple trolls. The people who buy and use Apple products desire to glean information from these threads, but are derailed by doing so because of anti-Apple bigots who are just as childish as Kaine was in the VP debate.

The ones supporting Apple discussions are called insulting names and made out to be 100 percent Apple paid minions, which is not the case. Swordmaker is involved in discussions of many computer products, indeed he is active on Microsoft Windows discussions. As for me, I'm a former NT/Windows server administrator and have supported dozens of different platforms, not just Apple. I haven't seen vitriol directed at visitors to other threads like that directed at Apple users. It's time it stopped.

If you don't like Apple products and prefer something else, fine, then stay out of the Apple threads. If you have something of value (that is factual) then say it, but don't sling the crap, otherwise you are a nuisance.

[dayglored]

> If you don't like Apple products and prefer something else, fine, then stay out of the Apple threads. If you have something of value (that is factual) then say it, but don't sling the crap, otherwise you are a nuisance.

That's exactly right -- and of course applies to all of us, per JimRob's statement I quoted above.

Incidentally, here's JimRob's original comment #127, in context.

[Shanghai Dan]

If Swordmaker or anyone else throws mud at you, don't throw it back. Sure, it's fun to get all muddy or have a food fight, but what does it accomplish? NOTHING! This is just an internet forum. It's not like your food fight is going to settle anything. It's a total waste of your life. Life is precious, and limited. Trust me on that, I'm an old fart, and I know.

Got it. There's a protected class here.

I guess then Sword and company will stay out of the Android and Windows threads? Or are all other OSes and platforms considered 2nd class citizens?

[dayglored]

> Got it. There's a protected class here.

Hardly. :-) I'm just suggesting that getting into a p!ssing match serves no purpose other than getting wet. And a wiser man stays dry.

> I guess then Sword and company will stay out of the Android and Windows threads?

All are welcome to contribute useful information and opinions on all threads. None of these are closed "caucuses".

> Or are all other OSes and platforms considered 2nd class citizens?

Again, hardly.

In case you don't know, I run the Windows Ping List. There are more complaints about Windows than MacOS or Android by a factor of 10. Some are snarky comments from Apple or Android fans, sure. But they get told the same thing -- everybody has their favorites, don't waste bandwidth p!ssing on fellow FReepers just because they make a different choice of smartphone. It's ridiculous.

The difference is, on one hand arguing the pros and cons of the product based on published specs and reproducible test data, versus on the other hand troll threads based on some random joker's YouTube video or on some other joker's story about how Windows 10 melted his hard drive or some other joker's story about how a Samsung phone burned his house down and killed his dog...

Seriously, there are better ways to spend one's time.

If you like Androids, great, don't waste time trashing Apple, instead, post some positive heartwarming articles about Androids, and be sure to ping ThunderSleeps, who runs the Android Ping list.

[Swordmaker]

If you like Androids, great, don't waste time trashing Apple, instead, post some positive heartwarming articles about Androids, and be sure to ping ThunderSleeps, who runs the Android Ping list.

And incidentally, Dan, I was the one who suggest that Dayglored and later sought out Thundersleeps to start their Windows and Android ping lists in the first place because I saw a need for them!

Contrary to your assertions, I've owned and run a cross platform tech support business for over 40 years and am conversant with multiple platforms, both their strengths and weaknesses. If I see an article for either Windows or Android that is either pro or con those platforms I will post it and ping the list manager for that topic. If the topic has some relevance to Apple, I will also ping the Apple list for those that might be interested. I may make a humorous comment, but otherwise I try to stay out, but certainly don't stick around to insult the users of those platforms.

The 750 plus Freeper members of the Apple Ping list come to the Apple threads to learn something about the chosen platform, not to see constant Apple bashing from you and the other members of the Anti-Apple Hate Brigade whose purpose in participating is to hijack the threads and make them unpleasant places to read anything about Apple; to change the subject to anything other than what the original article was about.

A good example would be your irrelevant re-direction of yesterday's thread on the speed of the iPhone 7 into a bash about the Android S7 camera being thought by some unknown blogger's limited blind poll to produce more color saturated photos and, therefore, is a better camera, contrary to all the reviews by professionals. That is NOT what Apple users are there to learn. . . or someone else's resurrection of two year's ago "Bendgate" which, except for those deliberately bent, affected a total of nine iPhones. Nor are they there to see you playing "gotcha!" when you find some obscure spec that's better on an Android phone! It gets very tiresome and is obviously deliberate.

[Swordmaker]

Lots of very good, science-based comments specifically about how it most likely is NOT sapphire, and what the implications are.

The Verge has changed its story about this article and even the headline. The headline now reads "Apple's iPhone 7 camera lens uses pure sapphire despite test claims" and The Verge has added a retraction after Apple responded to their inquiry.

Update October 5th, 1PM ET: Apple has confirmed to The Verge that the company uses sapphire in its iPhone camera lens. It appears the correct testing conditions weren't adhered to in JerryRigEverything's tests. "Apple confirms the iPhone 7 camera lens is sapphire, and under proper testing conditions achieves the hardness and purity results expected from sapphire," says an Apple spokesperson.

The fact is that Apple uses Sapphire in the cover lenses on its cameras, but the "JerryRigEverything" YouTube testing puts far too much pressure on their scratch tester. Like all very hard materials including diamond, Sapphire is brittle, and their testing rig's hardness point did not scratch the Sapphire cover lens, it cracked it!

The planar sapphire lens that covers the glass lens system on the Apple cameras is there purely for protection and while it is thick enough for environmental scratch protection, it is not thick enough to withstand the pressure of a point contact of a machine deliberately pressing on it. It was not designed for that kind of pressure. Here is a photo of the lenses in a typical iPhone:

[dayglored]

I figured as much. Bunch of turkeys.

Another freakin' clickbait so-called tech article about some joker "JerryRigEverything" (there's a name to inspire confidence in his test methodology), jackin' off in his basement and making a YouTube video.

I'm not gonna say "There oughta be a law", because that's not how it oughta be.

Rather, "People oughta not be so d@mned gullible when they see clickbait."