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Texas Open Carry & Wal-Mart Greeters May Clash
alloutdoor.com ^ | 1/7/16 | Russ Chastain

Posted on 01/12/2016 11:13:52 AM PST by Jed Eckert

Law requires stores to verify carry license or turn them away.

More laws, more problems.

That's always the way it is. The more rules you have, the more trouble it is for everyone. And in this case, stores like Wal-Mart are reportedly bearing the brunt.

Texas recently began allowing open carry of handguns by folks who are licensed for concealed carry, and naturally, some folks are doing just that. But that creates a problem for retailers who sell alcoholic beverages such as beer and wine.

Apparently, Texas has a law that dictates that any business selling alcolohic beverages cannot "knowingly allow" someone without a license to carry a gun into their store. So when someone openly carries a gun into a Texas store, that store is legally bound to harass that person by asking to see his or her license and forced to turn away anyone who cannot (or will not) provide proof that their gun is being legally carried.

"[Wal-Mart] told its managers to check gun licenses of people carrying firearms into stores.


State liquor laws prohibit unlicensed handguns in establishments that sell products with alcohol.


Thus, a store that knowingly allows unlicensed guns around alcohol could lose its liquor license."

Not exactly what most Wal-Mart greeters expected when they took the job. And not exactly a comfortable position for them, either.

Yet another reason not to carry openly. There was the time when a guy was attacked in Wal-Mart's toy department while carrying openly. Then there was the fellow who was assaulted in a Wal-Mart bathroom and had his gun stolen because it wasn't concealed. And of course, the Oregon guy openly carrying on the streets of Oregon who was boldly robbed of his nice new gun.

In my opinion, there is no advantage to open carry in public areas, but there are numerous disadvantages. What do you think?


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Local News; Outdoors; Society
KEYWORDS: banglist; opencarry; secondamendment; texas; walmart
Open for discussion.

Personally, I disagree with the author's conclusions.

In the third case the victim was loitering around at 2 in the morning when he's approached by a black male who asks for a cigarette. Classic set up for a robbery. The victim was too stupid to realize what was happening.

The other incidents seem questionable as well. Maybe some open carriers in other open carry states can chime in if this has really been an issue.

1 posted on 01/12/2016 11:13:52 AM PST by Jed Eckert
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To: Jed Eckert

As a CCP holder, I agree with the open carry law. However, open carry at your own risk. I like having the option, and in certain cases I might carry open but I will not lead with my chin! I say leave em guessing.


2 posted on 01/12/2016 11:25:11 AM PST by BA63
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To: Jed Eckert

Texas passed a half assed law. Love Texas and they some things astoundingly well. But the control freaks in Austin are firmly in the grip of the DPS.
They made poor open carry law.

You shouldn’t need a permit for open carry.


3 posted on 01/12/2016 11:27:48 AM PST by DesertRhino ("I want those feeble minded asses overthrown,,,")
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To: Jed Eckert

Walmart sells alcohol, they don’t serve it.


4 posted on 01/12/2016 11:29:02 AM PST by SkyDancer ("Nobody Said I Was Perfect But Yet Here I Am")
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To: Jed Eckert

Wal-Mart greeters and open carrier clashing is just another unanticipated, unintended consequence of a bill voted and signed into law without vetting it completely. Very typical of laws written as a reaction to some event.
This one I agree with, but in the stampede to do something - anything is what gives us laws like this.


5 posted on 01/12/2016 11:31:16 AM PST by Tupelo (Honest men go to Washington, but honest men do not stay in Washington.)
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To: Tupelo
Sam your company is not what you built.

Your kiddies wanted to be P/C and Amazon kicked their asses.

6 posted on 01/12/2016 11:35:53 AM PST by scooby321
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To: Jed Eckert

Situational awareness trumps all! I let nobody close to me and my head is on a swivel in bathrooms, parking lots, retail/restaurant lines, basically every where. Somebody wants mine they will get it business end first. Action beats reaction every time.

You can get robbed in a Wal-Mart bathroom while carrying a piece. While I have not and probably will not exercise open carry (I carry concealed everywhere) I support those that want to do so.


7 posted on 01/12/2016 11:36:04 AM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: Jed Eckert

The “greeter solution” opens the store up to legal problems. Correct solution is to by policy ignore those carrying, because then they do not “knowingly” allow the unlicensed precisely because they don’t know who is/isn’t licensed. Greeters aren’t trained in how to discern the licensed, putting them in a position of practical obligation to approve any piece of paper nicely stating “license to carry” with a photo, especially if it’s marked as being from another state (the GA license is literally a photocopied & laminated paper with thumbprint & signature; a VT driver’s license alone should suffice). Checking licenses could open up legal problems if they turn away someone who does in fact have a legal carry permit.

At least it sets up precedent for undue social complications/confusion which should lead to Constitutional Carry.


8 posted on 01/12/2016 11:37:21 AM PST by ctdonath2 (History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the week or the timid. - Ike)
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To: Jed Eckert
It's not the Wal-Mart greeters job to do law enforcement work.
I have no obligation to hand my permit to anyone but an LEO in the line of duty.
Wal-Mart can simply read the law differently; If they *know* a customer does not have the right to carry, but he does, then call the cops.
If they *don't* know whether he has a license or not, then they can't be said to have "knowingly" admitted him.
Get used to people carrying openly and stop harassing lawful citizens on the excuse that *some* may not be legal.
After all, Wal-Mart has no obligation to check the driver's licenses of everyone who uses their parking lot.

9 posted on 01/12/2016 11:43:23 AM PST by BitWielder1 (I'd rather have Unequal Wealth than Equal Poverty.)
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To: Jed Eckert; BA63; DesertRhino

When I was growing up in McMinnville Oregon no one would have been concerned seeing someone carrying a rifle or pistol. At the golf course where I worked I walked around the course shooting gophers with a shotgun. There were players on the course, houses built at the edge of some fairways,. Also the course was located inside the city limits.

Fifty years later in the degenerate culture we now suffer, I would not open carry, but the option should always be there with no license needed.


10 posted on 01/12/2016 11:47:39 AM PST by Retain Mike
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To: Jed Eckert
WFAA last night spent the first ten minutes of their 10:00 broadcast on a trial scenario of how to protect yourself from an office shooter.

They had a group of variously-trained people respond to a gunman. One person was open carry. Guess who the office gunman went to first? The guy with the open gun.

The people who were able to finish off the gunman were those who emptied their gun without the gunman knowing they had a gun.

I believe in people being able to conceal and carry, but I don't want the bad guy knowing I have a gun.

11 posted on 01/12/2016 11:53:35 AM PST by Slyfox (Ted Cruz does not need the presidency - the presidency needs Ted Cruz)
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To: Jed Eckert
I'm not sure Walmart in Texas even HAS "greeters" anymore. Haven't seen a "greeter" in over a year and I've been in many parts of the state.

Haven't seen anybody "open carry" either for that matter.

12 posted on 01/12/2016 11:56:40 AM PST by Texan
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To: Jed Eckert

“State liquor laws prohibit unlicensed handguns in establishments that sell products with alcohol.”

Not totally true, the business must derive at least 51% of there revenue from alcohol sales to legally prohibit, licensed firearm permit holders, from their premises.


13 posted on 01/12/2016 12:03:59 PM PST by 2001convSVT (Going Galt as fast as I can.)
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To: 2001convSVT

Wallyworld quit carrying “assault weapons” because of feel good laws. They should stop carrying alcohol also since over 10,000 people were killed by drunk drivers last year.


14 posted on 01/12/2016 12:40:14 PM PST by oldasrocks (They should lock all of you up and only let out us properly medicated people.)
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To: 2001convSVT; Jed Eckert
"State liquor laws prohibit unlicensed handguns in establishments that sell products with alcohol."

Not totally true, the business must derive at least 51% of there revenue from alcohol sales to legally prohibit, licensed firearm permit holders, from their premises.


No, Jed is correct. Any place that sells alcohol, whether 51% or less, on-site or off-, is required to post signs that prohibit unlicensed possession of firearms (on phone so hard to look up actual law, I'm not sure if it's firearms or just handguns, think all firearms) on the property. Which is pointless, because Texas has no license to possess, no license to carry longguns, and there's already law that requires a license to carry handguns, irregardless of any alcohol sales. I would assume by possession the law was intended to mean on your person, but I don't think this has ever been a court issue.

What you are referring to is a place that has 51%+ of revenue from alcohol for on-site consumption, and that is a complete ban on any carrying into the establishment. And it doesn't legally allow them to prohibit carry, they are legally required to do so. Any place can already legally choose to prohibit carry through 30.06 and 30.07 if they want. If I remember (ping me back), I'll post laws/links when I get home to my laptop.
15 posted on 01/12/2016 1:01:49 PM PST by Svartalfiar
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To: Jed Eckert

This article is written by an idiot. If someone is open carrying in the store, Wal-Mart is safe to assume they have a license, as only someone who is licensed can legally do so. To their knowledge, anyone open carrying does have a license.

Also, see my comments about ‘unlicensed possession’ in the post above.


16 posted on 01/12/2016 1:05:01 PM PST by Svartalfiar
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To: Svartalfiar
This article is written by an idiot....

Yea, I agree. He's definitely biased against open carry.

17 posted on 01/12/2016 1:34:28 PM PST by Jed Eckert (The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem)
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To: Jed Eckert

Texas law needs some serious “normalization”, between state law and the Texas Alcoholic Beverages Commission regulations.

https://www.tabc.state.tx.us/index.asp


18 posted on 01/12/2016 3:02:53 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("Don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative." -Obama, 09-24-11)
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