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Don't Drop the Ball Augusta [Is Tiger about to be disqualified?]
John Lynch's Dad ^ | 4-12-13 | Blog

Posted on 04/12/2013 10:01:38 PM PDT by FlJoePa

Don't Drop the Ball, Augusta

On a day that so much attention was given to a rules infraction, it’s another rules infraction that everyone should be talking about.

We all know that 14 year old Guan Tianlang, competing at a level far beyond his age, was assessed a 1-stroke penalty for slow play. While basically nobody liked this ruling or agreed with it, it was technically correct.

USGA Rule 26 governs drops when a ball is in a water hazard. Per this rule, a player can replay the shot from “as nearly as possible from the spot from which the original ball was last played.” A player can also go back as far as he’d like keeping the flag and the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard in line.

When Tiger Woods hit his approach into hole 15, his ball caromed off the flagstick and went into the water hazard near the front-left portion of the green. Per Tiger’s post-round comments, he then went back to where he played from, but went 2 yards farther back. When he did this, I tweeted “Whe did TW's ball last cross the margin of the hazard? Near the bleachers. Shouldn't he have dropped on that line, not the line he did?”

Clearly, Tiger could have dropped from his original spot, but admitting that he dropped 2 yards farther back eliminates the “re-hit” drop option from consideration. The only other option he had was to keep the point where the ball last crossed the margin in line with the flag.

As I stated above, the ball bounced off the stick and rolled off the front-left portion of the green and into the hazard. That is the point the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard, and that is the controlling point for the line Tiger needed to take his drop from.

It’s absolutely within the realm of possibility Tiger just assumed his ball crossed the hazard on the line he originally hit it (it did, at first), but that line does not control where you take your drop. Check out the last paragraph of this Rules Decision:

“If a ball last crossed the margin of a water hazard as described in the situation above, it appears that the ball crossed the margin of the hazard three times (e.g., first, the initial time it crossed; second, when it crossed over the hazard onto land; and third, when the ball rolled back into the hazard). So when the Rule states that the ball must be dropped “keeping the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is to be dropped,” it is referring to the third (final) time. It is the reference point for the 26-1b option only.”

On a day that rules were being enforced, the Officials might want to go have a look at this one.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Sports
KEYWORDS: cheat; cheater; golf; hgh; humangrowthhormones; masters; tiger
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Now that I understand exactly what he did, I think he should be disqualified. Like the blogger says, he proceeded as if the ball crossed the hazard right in front of him, when it didn't.
1 posted on 04/12/2013 10:01:38 PM PDT by FlJoePa
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To: FlJoePa

Do you really think that they are going to disqualify the so-called ‘king’ of golf?

Not in this lifetime! They may award him a couple of strokes. That I would believe.


2 posted on 04/12/2013 10:07:59 PM PDT by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise (Learn three chords and you, too, can be a Rock Star!)
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To: FlJoePa

Did he gain an advantage from this?


3 posted on 04/12/2013 10:17:17 PM PDT by Williams (No Obama)
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To: spel_grammer_an_punct_polise
so-called ‘king’ of golf?

Why the cynicism? Has Tiger done something to offend you? He may not be the "king" of golf, but surly the "prince". And if his career stays on course, he will eventually be the "king" of golf.

4 posted on 04/12/2013 10:17:57 PM PDT by doc1019 (There is absolutely no difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion.)
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To: Williams

Yes. He even spoke about it on camera. About getting a few yards behind his original location.

If he wanted to take that option (keeping entry point between him and the hole), he’d be in the woods to his left - because the ricochet sent the ball to 8 O’Clock, not 6 O’Clock where he hit it from.

The more I think about this, there isn’t any way out. He’s gotta be DQ’d.


5 posted on 04/12/2013 10:22:25 PM PDT by FlJoePa ("Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good")
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To: doc1019

I am not a Tiger fan, BUT I will say that I do not believe he would purposely cheat his competitors, because that is what breaking the rules in a torunament means, cheating the fellow competitors. ... And don’t anyone bother bringing up his cheating on his wife. I won’t discuss that vulgarity.


6 posted on 04/12/2013 10:26:19 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: doc1019
No he is just an individual whose entire carefully constructed public persona has been shown to be completely fraudulent. He is a talented technician and a moral reprobate whose continued presence in professional golfing is mark of shame on the sport. While he did not, so far as we know, violate any laws as did the wretched Pete Rose his character is even more debased than that fatted Pharaoh.
7 posted on 04/12/2013 10:28:08 PM PDT by robowombat
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To: MHGinTN

Competitors get DQ’d all the time. It doesn’t mean they’re cheaters. Just means they effed up.


8 posted on 04/12/2013 10:28:56 PM PDT by FlJoePa ("Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good")
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To: robowombat

And your favorite football, basketball, baseball player lived a perfect life? I don’t care about his personal life, just his athletic ability. If we could get rid of all athletes that live less then Christian lives ... sports would cease to exist.


9 posted on 04/12/2013 10:30:19 PM PDT by doc1019 (There is absolutely no difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion.)
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To: MHGinTN

Woods lack of integrity and character are the heart of the matter.


10 posted on 04/12/2013 10:31:29 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: MHGinTN

I’m not a Tiger fan either. But he brings attention to the sport.


11 posted on 04/12/2013 10:31:43 PM PDT by berdie
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To: FlJoePa

TV viewers have had players DQ’d before. Contact Masters Tournament officials and register a complaint.


12 posted on 04/12/2013 10:33:35 PM PDT by twister881
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To: twister881

It’s been all over twitter for hours. They know what he did. He took a bad drop and signed a bad scorecard. It’s pretty simple.


13 posted on 04/12/2013 10:36:08 PM PDT by FlJoePa ("Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good")
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To: A.A. Cunningham

Perhaps we shall see. If he bows out or takes a two stroke addition to his score, would that tend to persuade you that he holds the game in high regard?


14 posted on 04/12/2013 10:42:32 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: doc1019
Unfortunately the cult of celebrity which is one of the really bad inventions of the 20th century has endowed these stick and ball men or pigskin throwers or whatever with a significance that goes beyond the sensible level of, say watching pool hustlers knock the numbered balls around. Through a propaganda machine Dr G would envy such these people are held up as iconic figures to the nation. I don't like it, I hate all of this organized phony lying ballyho that the ad men and the booster boys have polluted our society with. But it is a plague , like television, that can't be made to go away. So these entertainers, and that is what they are, should at least be held to a public standard commensurate with their grossly inflated images. When their feet of clay are revealed, especially when the revelation is as florid as it was for Mr. Wood the penalty should be being hurled from the tinsel Olympus and sent down to the Hades of the everyday banality. I hate celebrities but they should be made to toe the line in public and if not lose their overblown status.
15 posted on 04/12/2013 10:42:38 PM PDT by robowombat
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To: FlJoePa
Link:

Young golfer disqualifies self, gives up medal

16 posted on 04/12/2013 10:44:45 PM PDT by TaxPayer2000
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To: doc1019

There is a lot of petty Tiger hate on FR. Following his martial infidelity and subsequent troubles, leading to the attrition of hs game (and his fall in golf rankings) there were a good number of surprisingly happy FReepers. I am personally not a fan of Tiger, but I know he is one of golf’s greatest exponents. Moreover, his failings as a husband have nothing to do with my appreciation of golf and his accomplishments in the sport. I also have to admit being very happy with his new wind in the game, and rise to the top AGAIN.


17 posted on 04/12/2013 10:48:05 PM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: spetznaz

We are of like mind.


18 posted on 04/12/2013 10:49:41 PM PDT by doc1019 (There is absolutely no difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion.)
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To: FlJoePa

Your post is the succinct point that the Green Jackets can’t ignore and seemed clear in the late CBS Master’s wrap-up show with Jim Nance and David Feherty. They did everything but say he would be DQ in the morning. The smart play for Tiger would be to get in front of it and DQ himself. His public perception would go up several notches, IMO.


19 posted on 04/12/2013 10:50:03 PM PDT by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: MHGinTN

If he’s found in violation of rule 26 (which I believe he was), he signed an incorrect scorecard. That means he would be disqualified. There’s no penalty shots at this point.


20 posted on 04/12/2013 10:50:06 PM PDT by FlJoePa ("Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good")
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To: All
From Hank Haney's Twitter Feed:

"When he said he dropped 2 yards back i thought he had a problem"

21 posted on 04/12/2013 11:00:15 PM PDT by FlJoePa ("Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good")
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To: FlJoePa

Did the officials ignored a violation?


22 posted on 04/12/2013 11:13:01 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: count-your-change

ignore not ignored.


23 posted on 04/12/2013 11:19:02 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: FlJoePa

Tigerhate. Gotta love it.

He’ll DQ himself right around the same time Nobama resigns for his birth certification infraction.

Get ready to see Tiger in green on Sunday.


24 posted on 04/12/2013 11:22:31 PM PDT by mn-bush-man
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To: mn-bush-man

I actually have him in my pool. Rules is rules though. You just can’t get away with that, or the other players will freak out. He admits to the violation on live television. They have to DQ him.


25 posted on 04/12/2013 11:26:52 PM PDT by FlJoePa ("Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good")
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To: FlJoePa

The footage of his shot and re-shot is here:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/sport/story/2013-04-13/tiger-woods-disqualified-masters-illegal-drop-incorrect-scorecard-pga-rules

Freeze the footage at the 9-second mark (the location of the first shot). Then freeze it at the 1:39 mark (the location of the second shot).

I’m a little confused about the different placement. Where is the divot from the 1st shot? The angle/approach to the green seems different in the 2nd shot too, but that could just be from the camera having been moved.

If the divot is where it looks like it may be, that sure doesn’t look like 6 feet to me.

Thoughts?


26 posted on 04/12/2013 11:44:13 PM PDT by mn-bush-man
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To: mn-bush-man

27 posted on 04/12/2013 11:49:03 PM PDT by Daffynition (The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted. — D.H.)
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To: FlJoePa

I think most people watch golf for the same reason I do...they enjoy the sport and enjoy watching someone play well. The personal lives of the players are not part of the game and properly so.

But in any event it still is just a game.


28 posted on 04/12/2013 11:51:46 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: FlJoePa

People on FR have evey right to call out Woods as a scumbag....cause that’s what he is. It’s reality. No one is making any thing up about him. My gripe with Woods is simple: I believe he was on PEDS. I can’t count the number of times I’ve heard golf announcers say Woods is the only golfer in history to be able to lift the ball out of the ruff like he does.

Wood’s doctor was caught with PEDS. Woods was blown up like a linebacker. Phil Mickelson hinted at Woods PED use a few years ago when he joked that he was now hitting the ball 20 yards longer than Woods....lol, and look at Phil’s body.

People say PEDS will not help golfers....that’s bull. Woods drove the ball like no one else & he was able to hit out of the sand & ruff in an unatural way that had never been seen in golf before.


29 posted on 04/13/2013 12:06:15 AM PDT by LongWayHome
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To: FlJoePa

IMHO, there is no penalty. He dropped the ball in the area as near as possible to where he played his first shot. He had a downhill lie. You can’t play the second any nearer to the hole (under this option). He had to drop (you can’t place) a few yards behind the original shot or else it may have rolled closer to the hole (remember downhill lie). Once drop is made, the ball is in play where it lies, regardless whether it bounced forward or sideways. I think he gets away with it.


30 posted on 04/13/2013 5:35:27 AM PDT by deweyfrank
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To: A.A. Cunningham
Woods lack of integrity and character are the heart of the matter.

There have been many instances where players have called penalties on themselves that no one else had seen, or DQ'ed themselves for rules infractions only they had knowledge of breaking.

If Tiger Woods cared for the game more than himself, he would have DQ'ed himself before the sun went down on Augusta National.

With this latest act of blatant selfishness, he has put the integrity if the game of golf, the integrity of the rules officials, the integrity of Augusta National and the integrity of the entire field of golfers in jeopardy.

He should change his name to Leopard Woods. Same spots, different day.

31 posted on 04/13/2013 7:14:22 AM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedys=Can't drive, can't ski, can't fly, can't skipper a boat, but they know what's best for you.)
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To: LongWayHome
Exactly. Woods has been a cheater on and off the golf course. Cheated on his wife with bimbos, cheated on golf with PEDs. Now the Masters committee has used a “discretion” rule, given the cheater a 2-shot penalty, and is allowing him to continue to play. If Woods DQ’s himself, it will be only because his handlers and money men pressure him to do so. He doesn't have the integrity to DQ himself of his own volition.
32 posted on 04/13/2013 7:25:14 AM PDT by twister881
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To: deweyfrank

Sorry, he gets to drop twice and then place the ball.


33 posted on 04/13/2013 7:59:23 AM PDT by BillM (.)
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: BillM
That is correct. But, what is considered close? Usually when you incur a penalty, you get stance plus two club lengths and then drop. He dropped within one club length, no closer to hole. I don't see how he was getting an advantage. Not even he is that good. I believe he was full of himself in his press conference when he bragged about moving back so he wouldn't hit the pin again.
36 posted on 04/13/2013 8:26:59 AM PDT by deweyfrank
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To: robowombat

No he is just an individual whose entire carefully constructed public persona has been shown to be completely fraudulent


And this differs from almost everyone else in public life how? There’s an entire industry of media consulants and spinmasters whose job it is to create and maintain public personas for celebrities, politicians, etc. I’m not sure why Tiger is somehow special in this regard.


37 posted on 04/13/2013 8:28:55 AM PDT by garbanzo (Welcome to the jungle, it gets worse here every day)
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To: deweyfrank

The rule is clear. He broke the rule. Assuming he signed his scorecard, he should be disqualified. Instead they invoked the ‘Tiger’ rule.


38 posted on 04/13/2013 8:46:31 AM PDT by BillM (.)
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To: BillM

Tigger needs to wd.


39 posted on 04/13/2013 8:55:09 AM PDT by Palio di Siena
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To: BillM

Oh...So it’s Woods you hate. That rule was put in in 2012. Was it put in because of Woods? I don’t know. And I don’t believe the rule is clear. Hell, it should say “place” the ball ANAP. That would be clear. If you drop the ball, it could very well end up a few feet from where it was dropped. The golfer is already penalized 1 stroke. Does he have to drop again until it stops next to the original (or after 2 drops, place it}? I don’t think so. The rule sucks for golfers. If you incur a penalty, you are allowed a drop within 2 club lengths. And yes, you try to drop within that area in a fashion that gives you the advantage. You can call it cheating if you want.


40 posted on 04/13/2013 9:08:59 AM PDT by deweyfrank
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To: MHGinTN
I am not a Tiger fan, BUT I will say that I do not believe he would purposely cheat his competitors, because that is what breaking the rules in a torunament means, cheating the fellow competitors

Failing to sign your scorecard is not "cheating the fellow competitors", but it got someone DQ'd from a major tournament a ways back. More recently the same thing happened to Michelle Wei.

PS...I am NOT a golf fan.

41 posted on 04/13/2013 9:12:08 AM PDT by Roccus
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To: deweyfrank

Tiger DID NOT assess himself a penalty! He therefore was required to drop as near as possible to the spot of the last shot. These pros can drop 5 out of 5 on a dollar bill!


42 posted on 04/13/2013 9:20:09 AM PDT by BillM (.)
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To: FlJoePa
There have been many instances where players have called penalties on themselves that no one else had seen, or DQ'ed themselves for rules infractions only they had knowledge of breaking.

If Tiger Woods cared for the game more than himself, he would have DQ'ed himself before the sun went down on Augusta National.

With this latest act of blatant selfishness, he has put the integrity of the game of golf, the integrity of the rules officials, the integrity of Augusta National and the integrity of the entire field of golfers in jeopardy.

He should change his name to Leopard Woods. Same spots, different day.

43 posted on 04/13/2013 9:36:42 AM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedys=Can't drive, can't ski, can't fly, can't skipper a boat, but they know what's best for you.)
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To: deweyfrank

we have BINGO!


44 posted on 04/13/2013 9:40:45 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: BillM
He hit into a hazard, and not being able to hit it out, he chose to drop where he did and took a 1 stroke penalty. I still say he should drop within 2 clubs, from his original divot, no closer to the hole. Take Tiger out of the equation. The rule still sucks. But for now it is what it is.

Have you ever hit a ball that you can't find? Then you know you must go back to where it was hit. You drop within a couple club lengths, add a stroke penalty, and play on.

45 posted on 04/13/2013 9:44:46 AM PDT by deweyfrank
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To: deweyfrank

You can think all you want. He is required under his chosen relief option to drop as near as possible. It should hit the ground within not more than a foot.

Sorry, I’m an Ex Rules Official, this is how it is.


46 posted on 04/13/2013 10:00:26 AM PDT by BillM (.)
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To: BillM
OK. If that's the rule, that's the rule. But what rule # states that on a drop the ball must hit within a foot of the divot?
47 posted on 04/13/2013 10:11:22 AM PDT by deweyfrank
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To: FlJoePa
Now that I understand exactly what he did, I think he should be disqualified

I don't think you really do. The disqualification would be the result of signing an incorrect score card.....

Before Woods finished his round and prior to the signing, the officials reviewed the tape and determined that no infraction occured, and they told him that. Subsequently Woods signed his card without the two stroke penalty.

It wasn't until 10:00 p.m. last night that another viewer had called Augusta and told the officials about the post round interview where Woods explained his drop. The officials then got together again this morning to discuss it with Woods where they informed him that they were assessing the two stroke penalty which would have happened if they had made the correct decision yesterday afternoon.

Waiving the DQ due to signing an incorrect scorecard was the proper thing for the officials to do .

48 posted on 04/13/2013 10:16:26 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (This space for rent)
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To: deweyfrank

Just leave it alone! HE was PENALIZED. Therefore it was NOT the nearest point!


49 posted on 04/13/2013 10:17:53 AM PDT by BillM (.)
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To: BillM
OK..Truce! Just sayin rule sucks and should be clearer. The golf gods have ruled.
By the way, neither rule 20-2 or 26-1 say anything about your one foot rule. Glad I don't play golf in Canada. LOL
50 posted on 04/13/2013 10:34:31 AM PDT by deweyfrank
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