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"Do not turn off your computer" [Grammar Vanity]
1-12-2013 | re_nortex

Posted on 01/12/2013 3:39:35 PM PST by re_nortex

I typically spend 94.37% of my computing time in the Solaris or Linux environments but today was one of those occasions when I ventured outside my comfort zone, launching into Windows 8 for a brief while. A series of updates were available and upon the recommended reboot, I was greeted with this message:

Windows Update: Do not turn off your computer.

Of course, the Unix platforms have never been noted for the precision of their error and informational messages (the notorious "not a typewriter" as a catchall for an invalid ioctl). Yet the syntax of the Microsoft message struck me as a bit odd, almost a bit like Pittsburghese. I would think a more apt phrasing would be Do not turn your computer off as a cautionary message while the updates were being applied.


TOPICS: Computers/Internet
KEYWORDS: grammar; microsoft
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1 posted on 01/12/2013 3:39:45 PM PST by re_nortex
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To: re_nortex

Perhaps nonsense up with which Microsoft would not put?


2 posted on 01/12/2013 3:41:26 PM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker
Perhaps nonsense up with which Microsoft would not put?

:-)

Well said, Winston.
3 posted on 01/12/2013 3:42:48 PM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: re_nortex

Well, Microsoft wanted to impact you proactively, otherwise, the company could care less!


4 posted on 01/12/2013 3:43:36 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: re_nortex

I saw nothing wrong with the grammar but then again, I’m a Pittsburgher. B-D


5 posted on 01/12/2013 3:44:52 PM PST by Nowhere Man (Whitey, I miss you so much. Take care, pretty girl. (4-15-2001 - 10-12-2012))
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To: re_nortex

(shrug) for several years here in Pennsylvania we had automobile license plates that proudly proclaimed, “You’ve Got a Friend In Pennsylvania”.


6 posted on 01/12/2013 3:45:05 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: re_nortex

Indgrish!


7 posted on 01/12/2013 3:47:02 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: re_nortex

A preposition is a bad thing to end a sentence with!!


8 posted on 01/12/2013 3:47:27 PM PST by yeetch! (These are the good old days!)
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To: Revolting cat!
Well, Microsoft wanted to impact you proactively, otherwise, the company could care less!

Ballmer and crew should of leveraged a synergistic strategy as they right-sized the staff in Bangalore responsible for crafting the textual strings. At the end of the day...

9 posted on 01/12/2013 3:47:42 PM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: re_nortex
Not that I'm a big fan of MS, but did you consider the audience for the message?

Perhaps they did.

(I still remember the "IN" in "FLAMMABLE" before it had to be dumbed down.)

10 posted on 01/12/2013 3:48:49 PM PST by Calvin Locke
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To: re_nortex

Because “turn” and “off” have to be together. “Turn your computer off” is incorrect. “Turn off your computer” is correct. Learn English.


11 posted on 01/12/2013 3:52:38 PM PST by Cruising Speed
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To: re_nortex

I use Microsoft’s (Win 7) own password protected screen saver. When I return and press the ANY key or the mouse, I first see the message “Locking your computer” for 5 seconds before the password prompt appears.


12 posted on 01/12/2013 3:52:48 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: re_nortex
the Unix platforms have never been noted for the precision of their error and informational messages

I just checked this variant of linux.

Yep. "Printer on fire" is still a valid error message for an unknown printer error.

/johnny

13 posted on 01/12/2013 3:54:59 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: re_nortex

I understand your point about grammar, but on another note I learned through bitter experience that if you do turn off your computer when you get that message, it’s format the hard drive and reinstall windows from scratch time.


14 posted on 01/12/2013 3:55:22 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (TYRANNY: When the people fear the politicians. LIBERTY: When the politicians fear the people.)
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To: re_nortex
Having learned ESL I try to never pass up an opportunity to sharpen my grammar.

Could you explain what's wrong with the MS phrase?

15 posted on 01/12/2013 3:56:08 PM PST by stormhill
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To: Lancey Howard

But a true mid-state PA Dutchie would say, “Don’t be making with the computer turning off now. Dontcha ya know”.


16 posted on 01/12/2013 3:57:33 PM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
"it’s format the hard drive and reinstall windows linux from scratch time."

There. Fixed it.

/johnny

17 posted on 01/12/2013 3:58:11 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: re_nortex

I think one can argue that “turn on” and “turn off” are familiar phrases, used of radios, TVs, computers, and most other electronic gadgets. Or, for that matter, before radios came on the scene, there was the phrase, “Turn off the lights.”

So, “Do not turn off your computer” seems correct to me.


18 posted on 01/12/2013 3:58:11 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: re_nortex

Grammar nazi’s sucketh


19 posted on 01/12/2013 4:03:02 PM PST by plain talk
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To: stormhill; Cruising Speed
Could you explain what's wrong with the MS phrase?

According to FReeper Cruising Speed, I'm wrong and Microsoft's syntax is correct. Apologies to all for the thread.

20 posted on 01/12/2013 4:04:10 PM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: re_nortex

We have really devolved. In VMS (later OpenVMS, which change didn’t help much) messages have the following format:

%facility-s-identification, text

Example:

-RMS-E-FNF, file not found
-SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file

Facility is an OS component, in this case the file system.

s is severity, in this case Warning.

identification is the message id.

You can capture (trap) the $STATUS in your script as a unique hex number and process it accordingly without failing the script. You can also get further help on the message.

All this was possible in the early 1980s.

More detail here: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/documentation/pdf/ovms_73_sys_mes.pdf


21 posted on 01/12/2013 4:09:18 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Cicero
I think one can argue that “turn on” and “turn off” are familiar phrases, used of radios, TVs, computers, and most other electronic gadgets. Or, for that matter, before radios came on the scene, there was the phrase, “Turn off the lights.”

Growing up a Gospel music fan, the Carter Family's classic Turn Your Radio On, performed here by Mark Lowry and the Gaithers, perhaps should have been titled as "Turn On Your Radio".

22 posted on 01/12/2013 4:12:26 PM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: Cruising Speed

OK then, so is it “off to the races!” or “to the races off!”?


23 posted on 01/12/2013 4:17:08 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: re_nortex
"Do not turn off your computer."

"< *do >" "do" < * > < SVO > < SVOO > < SV > V IMP VFIN @+FAUXV

"" "not" NEG-PART @NEG

"< turn >" "turn" < SVOC/A > < SVC/A > < out/SVC/N >

< out/SVC/A > < SVO > < SV > V INF @-FMAINV

"< off >" "off" ADV ADVL @ADVL

"off" PREP @ADVL

"< your >" "you" PRON PERS GEN SG2/PL2 @GN>

"< computer >" "computer" < DER:er > N NOM SG @

"<$.>"

24 posted on 01/12/2013 4:20:24 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: Revolting cat!
I still have nightmares about

WRTHOMBLK, I/O error rewriting home block

25 posted on 01/12/2013 4:24:58 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: Nowhere Man

I moved here (NW PA) 2 years ago and the biggest grammar thing I always cringe at is the locals omitting “to be” from what they are saying.

example:

“The knippling pin on your car is shot and needs fixed”.


26 posted on 01/12/2013 4:26:03 PM PST by Rodamala
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To: steve86

and many others.

But at least you could always find the meanings in the orange books.


27 posted on 01/12/2013 4:26:37 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: re_nortex

“You turn me on, I’m a radio...”


28 posted on 01/12/2013 4:28:02 PM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker

That way when you contact the tech support guy in India, and read the message, he’d understand.


29 posted on 01/12/2013 4:29:58 PM PST by dhs12345
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To: JRandomFreeper

I always dual-boot. SQL Server doesn’t work in Linux, and that’s what I have to use for work.


30 posted on 01/12/2013 4:30:26 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (TYRANNY: When the people fear the politicians. LIBERTY: When the politicians fear the people.)
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To: re_nortex
Neither of you is correct, neither is mistaken.

There is a mistaken belief among some grammarians that English is Latin. It is not. In Germanic languages, the verb-form modifier must appear at the end of the sentence, in Latin languages it is forbidden. English is neither, and both forms are considered acceptable.

"Just between you and me" is another favorite. You will have people challenge you to a death match over this one. "It's 'just between you and I!'" No, it's not. There actually is no correct form in English, because the me/I can be taken as either a subject or an object.

Dangling prepositions are also not forbidden in English. The claim that they are has always been dubious at best.

Increasingly, grammarians are also yielding to the linguists, who for years have been saying that there is no required use of "whom" in English, because English does not in fact have an objective case. It is omitted by all but the most careful speakers now, except in cases where usage makes it sound weird (as in "to whom do you refer?")

31 posted on 01/12/2013 4:31:37 PM PST by FredZarguna (In a well-regulated FReeper den, the right to create and deploy antimatter shall not be infringed.)
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To: JRandomFreeper
"Printer on fire" is still a valid error message for an unknown printer error.

I've always chuckled at "You don't exist, go away" when a user doesn't have an entry in /etc/passwd or some similar form of authentication. And there's always this classic when the value of errno isn't handled properly.

Failed to open file, error: Success.

32 posted on 01/12/2013 4:33:17 PM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: FredZarguna
Besides, trying to control American English grammar is like herding catz. Sort of. ;)

You are correct. Ending on the words make a difference in German. Word order makes a difference in Welsh. In English? You can pretty well figure out the mouse wasn't chasing the cat.

/johnny

33 posted on 01/12/2013 4:37:44 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Rodamala
“The knippling pin on your car is shot and needs fixed”.

And even here, 200+ miles away, I hear "needs rebuilt", which bugs me even more.

I have recently seen people use "sale" as a verb, mostly on Craigslist, instead of sell, which really drives me up the wall.

"We will sale the Jeep today only. Last chance".

34 posted on 01/12/2013 4:43:45 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: re_nortex
You have to wonder why we kept some of that in later distros. I wouldn't have a distro that couldn't handle a VT-100 terminal type.

The Apollo Color display? I could do without that. ;)

On this system

cat /etc/termcap | wc

Comes back with 20664 27606 969976

Lots 'o cruft.

Got an RS-232 breakout box?

/johnny

35 posted on 01/12/2013 4:45:30 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Rodamala
The eternal question for Yinzers really comes down to which of these forms is correct?

Red up your room!

Red your room up!

36 posted on 01/12/2013 4:47:09 PM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: steve86

lol I meant 2,000+ miles away (PNW).


37 posted on 01/12/2013 4:47:09 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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nod tudalen
Peidiwch â throi oddi ar eich cyfrifiadur.

38 posted on 01/12/2013 4:50:40 PM PST by moose07 (the truth will out ,one day. The Fiscal cliff has a spectacular view.)
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To: JRandomFreeper
cat /etc/termcap | wc

Ruh roh. We have a winner in the UUOC in this thread! :-) Just joshing of course since I often do things like:

cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep -i bogomips
See the Useless Use of Cat Award form letter and other hits on UUOC for a chuckle or two.
39 posted on 01/12/2013 4:55:15 PM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: re_nortex
Yep. And my fingers will continue to do it, even though my brain says "you can just wc /etc/termcap". Things you learn young never leave you.

/johnny

40 posted on 01/12/2013 5:00:20 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: re_nortex

No, “do not turn off your computer” is correct.


41 posted on 01/12/2013 5:01:49 PM PST by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: re_nortex; ShadowAce
Larry Ellison appreciates you using Solaris. ;)

I'm the same, Solaris and linux. Don't mess with Windows much anymore outside my son's lappys with Win7 and what work requires (which is server side only).

Pingin' another techie..

42 posted on 01/12/2013 5:06:01 PM PST by Michael Barnes (Obamaa+ Downgrade)
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To: moose07
I had no idea Welsh had a word for computer. But it's a flexible language, too.

/johnny

43 posted on 01/12/2013 5:14:27 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: re_nortex

So, the consensus appears to be that when you yell at your kids: “TURN IT OFF!”, you are abusing Queens English, because the correct yell is: “TURN OFF IT!” ?


44 posted on 01/12/2013 5:15:14 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: FredZarguna

Protocols do change with time. In the old KJV Bible, a sentence will often end in a semicolon and the next begins with a capital letter, which is something that I do not recall seeing now.

Also, if you are one of those grammar experts, it is most correct (at least in America) to place a reference within the comma or period (Jn. 3:16) or after it? I usually do the latter.

Thanks.


45 posted on 01/12/2013 5:16:05 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Michael Barnes
Larry Ellison appreciates you using Solaris. ;)

I use it with joy, Bill Joy that is. :-)

Actually I'll admit that I stray a bit from the pure Solaris approach since I do taint my system with the tools and utilities from OpenCSW. One of my colleagues is appalled that I use bash as my working shell instead of using the classic /bin/sh as mandated from the beginning of time (or at least the epoch) by Stephen Bourne.

46 posted on 01/12/2013 5:17:04 PM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: re_nortex

Semi-computer geek, don’t think I’m going to bookmark this one :)


47 posted on 01/12/2013 5:20:29 PM PST by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin......Nuff said.)
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To: daniel1212
Anerican English is about as fixed as a frog in a blender.

Our former president Andy Jackson is reputed to have said "It's a damn small mind that can only think of one way to spell a word".

/johnny

48 posted on 01/12/2013 5:20:36 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Revolting cat!
So, the consensus appears to be that when you yell at your kids: “TURN IT OFF!”, you are abusing Queens English, because the correct yell is: “TURN OFF IT!” ?

As I mentioned a few weeks back, you are one of the must-read posters here on FR. And I tend to ramble whereas you express things so aptly with an economy of words. And, thanks much for the ping to the other thread concerning grammar.

49 posted on 01/12/2013 5:22:03 PM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: re_nortex

Grammar teachers never revolutionize the world.
Old sticks in the mud.


50 posted on 01/12/2013 5:23:21 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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