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Not just 'following orders': Nazi prison camp bosses 'took pride......
mailonline ^ | 11.22.2012 | Amanda Williams

Posted on 11/22/2012 1:22:07 PM PST by Morgana

FULL TITLE: Not just 'following orders': Nazi prison camp bosses 'took pride in what they were doing' new study claims

Nazi concentration camp bosses who claimed they were just 'following orders' truly believed and took pride in what they were doing, researchers have claimed.

Landmark studies on human behaviour in the 1960s and 1970s had founded the theory that people carried out evil act because they naturally follow orders from figures of authority.

And Nazi war criminals famously tried the defence at the Nuremberg trials.

But Scottish psychologists have challenged the fifty-year-old findings after going back and re-examining the original experiments.

Professor Stephen Reicher of the University of St Andrews and Prof Alex Haslam of the University of Queensland, Australia, began their research ten years ago with a prison study which was broadcast on the BBC.

They found that volunteers given the role of 'guards' only acted brutally when they identified with their role and believed their actions were necessary to maintain control.

In a series of more recent experiments, they found that people will only bow to authority if they believe it is necessary to serve a greater good.

Professor Haslam said: 'Our own research shows that tyranny does not result from blind conformity to rules and roles, it is a creative act of followership that flows from identification with authorities who represent vicious acts as virtuous.'

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Conspiracy
KEYWORDS: democrats; nazi; nazis; obama
I realize it's Thanksgiving and this is wonderful day. However news stories like this are published on days such as this because they know we will miss them. At least I have been told this.
1 posted on 11/22/2012 1:22:12 PM PST by Morgana
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To: Morgana
Nazi prison camp bosses 'took pride in what they were doing' new study claims

Kinda of fits King Obama's pattern. I think he enjoys destroying the greatest society in the world.

2 posted on 11/22/2012 1:27:10 PM PST by Logical me
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To: Morgana

I hope those bastards are forever roasting like the turkey in my over.


3 posted on 11/22/2012 1:54:51 PM PST by Mike Darancette (I don't understand why the Boomers are so passive.)
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To: Logical me
I think he enjoys destroying the greatest society in the world.

He can't destroy it by himself. Every EPA, FBI, ATF, IRS, HUD, etc. bureaucrat is right there with him. Taking pride ins destroying freedom and liberty.

On a local level. the state and local cops, bureaucrats, etc, are just as guilty. And let's not forget the morons who voted these socialists into office.

Professor Haslam said: 'Our own research shows that tyranny does not result from blind conformity to rules and roles, it is a creative act of followership that flows from identification with authorities who represent vicious acts as virtuous.'

E\Perfect description of our current crop of thugs in blue and tehir masters.

4 posted on 11/22/2012 1:56:59 PM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Morgana
The kapo were as bad if not worse than the SS.
5 posted on 11/22/2012 2:01:13 PM PST by pterional
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To: Morgana

Didn’t have many picnics in Communist prisons, either.

Seems like dictatorships always commit atrocities - and this continues all around the world.

If only our wonderful university researchers would study some current despotic regimes, tyrants, and death cults.

Meanwhile, come to an American prison, and get a free college edumacation ! We’ve just about gotten rid of the idea of serious punishment of hardened criminals.


6 posted on 11/22/2012 2:05:52 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves.)
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To: Morgana

Why shouldn’t they have taken pride in their work? What do you think they should have done, stood around bitching about how inhumane everything was?


7 posted on 11/22/2012 2:27:02 PM PST by gotribe
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To: Morgana
Hitler and the Nazis could never have killed a single Jew or any other'' enemies of the Reich'' without the acquiescence and support of millions of ordinary Germans who were the little cogs in the wheels of the machinery of the Holocaust. Every German, from the soldiers and SS stormtroopers who did the rounding up and the killing to the employees of the Reich Railway who made sure the trains to the camps ran on time to those Germans who saw their Jewish neighbors disappearing and said nothing. They're all lairs. Many have debated when exactly the Holocaust began. It began the moment Adolph Hitler opened his mouth and the German people shut theirs.
8 posted on 11/22/2012 2:58:47 PM PST by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: jmacusa

If you don’t think this could have happened in any nation on earth, you’re deluded. It could happen right here if the leftists gain complete power.


9 posted on 11/22/2012 3:16:58 PM PST by ozzymandus
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To: Morgana
They found that volunteers given the role of 'guards' only acted brutally when they identified with their role and believed their actions were necessary to maintain control. In a series of more recent experiments, they found that people will only bow to authority if they believe it is necessary to serve a greater good.


10 posted on 11/22/2012 3:18:04 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot

Good one!!!!


11 posted on 11/22/2012 3:24:27 PM PST by Morgana (Time to play cowboys and muslims.)
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To: Morgana

There is a reason why they took pride in what they were doing.

First, look at the SS. The SS was created as a pseudo military organization to compete with the SA, the “brownshirts”, who were mostly political thugs and criminals, whose growing power threatened Hitler.

The SS was designed to have high credibility and discipline. This was done by recruiting educated men, many of whom had advanced college degrees. Once organized, this far more professional organization’s first assignment was to wipe out the leadership of the SA.

They did this with some relish, as they despised the loathsome SA criminal scum. But in turn, they presented an even worse threat, were they to remain in Germany, so they were remade into the Waffen SS, and tasked to fight on the front lines next to, but not as part of the army.

Of all things, the SS was under the Finance Ministry, whose duties also included the concentration camps. And so the SS was subdivided into the Waffen SS and the General SS.

Unlike the Waffen SS, the General SS was populated with the same kind of men who had been in the SA. They were intended from the start to commit heinous crimes.

So, and this is my point, take some street punk, put him into an organization with high credibility, give him a snazzy uniform, as if he was “somebody”, and he will gladly do *anything* you ask him to.

He will “take pride” in doing the most disgusting things.

As a parallel example, the Imperial Japanese Army did much the same thing. They took ordinary men, such as shoe salesmen and innkeepers, put them in uniform as officers, gave them swords and pumped them full of the Samurai honor code known as “Bushido”, and let them know that military aggression would be rewarded.

So they “took pride” in committing war crimes like there was no tomorrow.


12 posted on 11/22/2012 3:49:21 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: Morgana
'The fundamental point is that tyranny does not flourish because perpetrators are helpless and ignorant of their actions.

'It flourishes because they actively identify with those who promote vicious acts as virtuous.

'It is this conviction that steels participants to do their dirty work and that makes them work energetically and creatively to ensure its success.

Moreover, this work is something for which they actively wish to be held accountable - so long as it secures the approbation of those in power.'

These few sentences explain the power and brutality of the Religion of Peace. These sentences explain conversion by the sword. These few sentences explain why fundamentalist of Islam willingly die in the acts of murder against unbelievers.

These people are acting in the name of their god as revealed to them by their religious leaders. Those on the Left that tell you that these are peaceful good people that are reacting to wrongs that we have committed against them are either lying to you or are self deluded.

The Islamic religion is a religion of conquest. Islam throughout history has been spread by conquest in a wave of murder, rape, torture and plunder.

These people expect to be rewarded by their god in the afterlife for the unbelievers that they either convert by torturing them or murder because they would not convert. As the article states they expect to be held accountable by their god for their actions on this earth.

Don’t expect it to change because we talk nice.

13 posted on 11/22/2012 4:31:51 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: ozzymandus
Executive Order 9066 was a trial run and established precedent:


14 posted on 11/22/2012 4:48:01 PM PST by Oatka (This is America. Assimilate or evaporate.)
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To: ozzymandus

The citizens of Germany were not allowed to own guns. Here in America we do.


15 posted on 11/22/2012 4:56:01 PM PST by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: PieterCasparzen

Right, and those who claim German military could just refuse, are dead wrong. The punishment for disobeying orders was execution, sometimes within minutes. In either the German or Russian army. Basic instinct for survival can trump the desire to do “the right thing”The time to have stopped these atrocities was before the third Reich came to power. We may be headed to learn a similar lesson. My family originally came here from Switzerland, but I had kin on both sides in WWII.The people that did this study are full of bull. I’d love to see one of them tell Hitler or Stalin to piss off, I ain’t following orders!


16 posted on 11/22/2012 6:17:24 PM PST by Quickgun (I came here screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I can go out that way if I have to)
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To: Morgana

Scottish psychologists.? Are those as proficient as the ones from Bumfkt, Egypt?


17 posted on 11/22/2012 6:25:03 PM PST by Quickgun (I came here screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I can go out that way if I have to)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

You are correct, too, the most likely to carry out such orders were picked. But Germany didn’t have that many “thugs” These folks doing the study fail to point out the consequences of disobeying orders in those days.


18 posted on 11/22/2012 6:32:46 PM PST by Quickgun (I came here screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I can go out that way if I have to)
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To: Morgana

I have been surprised that Americans submitted to the abuse they take at the airports and at the TSA workers (and some cops, too) for abusing people like they do.

They do it for the greater good of “safety” even though it is abuse of people they know are not really a danger to anyone and the abuse is accepted by people who know they not a danger. I feel safer when you abuse me or when I get to abuse you? It’s a dangerous mentality.

I think it will increase in the US as the American styled “anti-terror” KGB and globalism gets more and more power. When you see what happened in Germany and then what happened under communist regimes...it makes me shudder for our future.


19 posted on 11/22/2012 6:45:26 PM PST by SaraJohnson
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To: Quickgun

I’m not so sure that consequences for disobedience were as much a factor as was cultural obedience.

Even today, in Germany, police officers to not talk or chat with you. Everything they say is an order that they expect to be obeyed. There is a great sense of orderliness.

And this can get rather bizarre. For example, while the German military was supposed to have iron discipline in following orders, soldiers down to privates were required to show initiative when initiative was important, and they would be punished if they failed to do so.

Paradoxical. Yet it meant that they were hesitant when encountering unknowns in the offense, since in that case obeying orders was paramount; but in the defense, initiative was king, so Germans were extremely hard to fight when they were in defense.

It has been noted that the Nazis were indeed brutal against individual defiance; yet they became almost paralyzed when confronted with group defiance.

For example, a prison was filled with political prisoners, and a mob of their wives and mothers formed outside of the prison. The Nazis were immobile in the face of this group of women, who eventually walked into the prison, let their husbands and sons out, and took them home, and the prison authorities just stood there.

There were other incidents similar to this.


20 posted on 11/22/2012 8:13:22 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: Logical me

This guy explained the progressive's 'need' for destruction.

21 posted on 11/22/2012 9:08:28 PM PST by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again,")
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To: pterional

While I don’t buy the ultimate conclusion that ALL Germans were “Hitler’s Willing Executioners” this supports Donald Goldhagen’s book that says that the camp guards and even ordinary German soldiers went out of their way to kill Jews, even to the point of herding them westward to avoid the Russians so that the Russians wouldn’t free them.


22 posted on 11/23/2012 4:32:10 AM PST by LS ('Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually.' Hendrix)
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To: LS; All

That’s some slick communist propaganda - implying that they were being “herded away from” those who would “free them”. Whichever allied army reached a camp would liberate the camp - all the death camps were liberated.

Russian death camps are just as infamous and NAZI camps, having killed tens of millions of Russians, and, similarly, were populated with an array what the Soviet government considered to be of enemies of the state, criminals, undesirables, etc.

Anti-semitism on both an institutional and personal level in Russia, in fact, all over the world, has a long yet conveniently forgotten history.

In the closing days of the war, a number of German units ignored fantasy orders coming from Hitler and moved west so they could surrender to the Americans. One can only surmise that if prisoners were being herded westward this was not done to be mean to them, but, like most everyone seemed to know at the time, because surrender to the Americans presented a fate infinitely preferable to surrender to the Russians.

After WWII, everyone trapped in the Soviet bloc was stuck in a Godless, communist, politburo-run, militaristic, corrupt, command economy in which the domestic political and commerce scene can only be described as savage.

This guy has written some interesting books about Russia during the cold war; this article on his life is well worth a read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Solzhenitsyn


23 posted on 11/23/2012 9:07:22 AM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves.)
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To: PieterCasparzen; All
Thank You, for posting this....

24 posted on 11/23/2012 9:12:35 AM PST by skinkinthegrass (Anger a Conservative by telling a lie; Anger a Liberal by telling the truth....RWR 8-)
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To: PieterCasparzen

Believe me, these were not being herded to save them from th Russians. You might actually read the guy’s book before dismissing it. He has extensive evidence and is taken pretty seriously even by scholars ho don’t agree with his ultimate interpretation.


25 posted on 11/23/2012 11:12:49 AM PST by LS ('Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually.' Hendrix)
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To: PieterCasparzen; LS
Russian death camps are just as infamous...

This guy has written some interesting books about Russia during the cold war; this article on his life is well worth a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Solzhenitsyn

Some people are unhappy about Solzhenitsyn's last book "200 Years Together", where he makes note that a large percentage of the Soviet secret police were Jewish. Which would make discussion of Soviet death camps awkward in the aftermath of WW2.

26 posted on 11/23/2012 11:34:22 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: LS

I’ve seen documentaries on the military channel which contained interviews with Jews who were in the camps and were put to the task of doing the hands-on carrying out of the order of the camp command - and these men said that this was, unfortunately, the way things worked. These men carry the burden of what they themselves saw and were forced to do. Though we can’t find righteousness in what they chose, and though authority and hence responsibility flows uphill from them, we understand that we are all mere men.

Just as in no way can we paint the Jews forced to carry out orders as bearing responsibility for the orders being given, we can not impute the orders given from the top on cowering civilians either. Should they have fought against a killing machine that would mean certain death for them and their loved ones - of course. But that’s easy for us to say, worlds removed from the confrontation.

There is the persistent historical rewrite, one book at a time, which little by little attempts to brand every German citizen as bearing the full guilt for the death camps.

This is simply not the case, and it changes the focus from a) ideology to b) ethnicity, nationality and race.

Some people today ceaselessly try to blame those darned German factory workers, farmers and housewives, delving into history to prove that “they all knew”. They point to the German businessman who “enabled” the NAZI regime to develop it’s powerful military.

IMHO, everyone is aware of what happened in WWII to the extent that, if they’re honest with themselves, they understand enough to learn from it the lessons they should.

IMHO, people of today should wake up every morning, look in the mirror, and ask themselves if they can live with what they’re doing and not doing for the cause of covenanting with God by their own nation.

Without God, the nation will succumb to yet another human-devised ideology that promises justice only to yield corruption and evil. To me, that would mean despite all our detailed research dedicated to assigning blame, we failed to learn the lesson we should have from the tragedy which resulted in millions dying in death camps: the tragedy of too many thought leaders in society abandoning God’s Law Word.

If the nation continues to place it’s faith in secular humanism and moral relativity, we may well all get a chance to see whether we have the courage to make the ultimate sacrifice, knowing that it will not stop the killing machine anyway.


27 posted on 11/23/2012 1:15:16 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves.)
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To: PapaBear3625

Heck, a disproportionate number of Communist Party leadership and socialists/communists in America were Jews. Hard to deny.


28 posted on 11/23/2012 4:02:07 PM PST by LS ('Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually.' Hendrix)
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Leftists — every #ing one of them.


29 posted on 11/23/2012 4:05:54 PM PST by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: LS; All
"Hard to deny."
I'm sure David Horowitz "Radical Son" could illuminate ppl. the reasons for it..
some Marxists' self-hatred being the cause?

30 posted on 11/23/2012 8:58:39 PM PST by skinkinthegrass (Anger a Conservative by telling a lie; Anger a Liberal by telling the truth....RWR 8-)
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To: skinkinthegrass

You know, I read that, and Podhoretz’s “Why Are Jews Liberal?” and I don’t understand why Jews are leftist


31 posted on 11/24/2012 4:11:54 AM PST by LS ('Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually.' Hendrix)
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