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To: SeekAndFind
I'll say it again... Logic is the most major tool which God has given us for understanding our world. If a science claim or theory cannot pass a simple test for basic logic, the claim of theory is junk science.

"Big Bang" is bad science and bad theology rolled into a package. Having the entire mass of the universe collapsed to a point would be the mother of all black holes, nothing would ever "bang" its way out of that.

Likewise for a supposedly omnipotent and omniscient God to suddenly determine that it would be cool or necessary to create a universe at a particular point in time while the idea had never occurred to him previously is clearly unworkable and is not compatible with anybody's system of logic. It doesn't even matter whether this supposed creation was 6000 years ago as per Bishop Usher or 17B years ago as per the evolosers and big-bangers.

In real life, the RNA/DNA code which is the basis of meaningful life has to be the work of a single pair of hands; the physical universe logically has to be eternal like God; the creation stories we read in ancient literature have to refer to the creation of our own local environment, and not to the creation of the universe.

23 posted on 04/26/2012 4:22:06 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: varmintman

I think you’re missing the fact that God created the universe, therefore the universe has a beginning. God is eternal. Matter is not.

The relevant point the research seems to point to is that all the popular theories that have been designed to evade the “universe-has-a-beginning” argument actually argue the opposite - the sort of expansion that is theorized by multiverse proponents, and undulating universe proponents, and sudden expansion proponents... each of them mathematically require the universe to have a beginning.


27 posted on 04/26/2012 4:41:25 PM PDT by SquarePants
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To: varmintman
Likewise for a supposedly omnipotent and omniscient God to suddenly determine that it would be cool or necessary to create a universe at a particular point in time while the idea had never occurred to him previously is clearly unworkable and is not compatible with anybody's system of logic.

It is compatible with my logic. My God can can do what He wants when He wants to do it on His time schedule. The universe is not eternally old. It had a starting point. And time is relative.

28 posted on 04/26/2012 4:41:33 PM PDT by BipolarBob ("Oh no, I'm not sick, well I'm not physically sick anyway. Mentally I'm sick beyond any doctor's abi)
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To: varmintman

“Likewise for a supposedly omnipotent and omniscient God to suddenly determine that it would be cool or necessary to create a universe at a particular point in time while the idea had never occurred to him previously is clearly unworkable and is not compatible with anybody’s system of logic.”

You were doing great up until this point. Yes, God has given us logic so that we can inspect His handiwork and glean understanding about the universe, ourselves, and perhaps something about Him as well. However, to imagine that the logic we are given to understand this universe is equipped to give us understanding of anything outside this universe is a non sequiter. If God created this universe, then he must not be bound by it, and must be outside of it. So, we have no evidence that our logic is equipped to judge whether any of God’s possible actions or motivations are plausible. We can make some guesses, and hope that we are correct, but we cannot use our logic to draw a conclusion such as yours with any degree of certainty.


36 posted on 04/26/2012 5:10:49 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: varmintman
Had to post this.


65 posted on 04/28/2012 12:51:53 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Evidence, and reasonable inference from evidence.)
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To: varmintman
OK, we need to have a better look at this. Posting it again, bigger

.

.


66 posted on 04/28/2012 12:54:16 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Evidence, and reasonable inference from evidence.)
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To: varmintman
OK, we need to have a better look at this. Posting it again, bigger

.

.


67 posted on 04/28/2012 12:54:25 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Evidence, and reasonable inference from evidence.)
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To: varmintman

E = MC squared

Seeing as how God is all powerful [E] then He could simply remove His power from the Universe and poof all matter [M] disappears too. Furthermore His Word says he’ll fold up creation like a scroll and then replace them with a new Heaven and a new Earth.


73 posted on 05/01/2012 11:56:46 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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