Posted on 01/06/2011 9:51:05 PM PST by Palter
As the ice began to withdraw to the North from about 14,000 years ago they headed DUE NORTH from the Western European Refugia to NORWAY and went all the way to the top of the Fenno-Scandian Peninsula along the Arctic ocean.
Other Europeans departed to the East and skirted around the Southern edge of the Scandinavian residual Ice Sheet and also headed North to the East.
They were well in place all around Scandinavia by the end of the Younger Dryas episode. At that time "other Europeans" showed up from Central Europe ~ their presence is noted in the incidence of certain haplogroup densities in the current Sa'ami population.
There was another mid-latitude European Refugia on the Adriatic called The Serbian Refugia. As the ice withdraw from the North these people moved in following the developing forests and fields, and game. They became the greater source of the Eastern European populations ~ including the Russians.
They were in place mostly by 7500 years ago.
These same people, and probably the Sa'ami, spread East into Russia, the Russian Taiga, the Steppes and took their languages with them.
Some thousands of years later people from the Middle East moved North into the same regions (and gave the residents tans). It is quite literally not until modern times that any large number of East Asian populations managed to move into Europe ~ whether Eastern, Western, Central, Southern, or Northern. We know all about them.
They are not ancestral to the Sa'ami.
More relevant, though, you can find scattered populations of East Asians who have members who carry the Sa'ami X-factor genetic sequence. All such populations heard reindeer. It is safely presumed that since it's the East Asian/Siberian reindeer who were the world's first domesticated animals that Western Sa'ami genes were introduced in a series of bridal trades across North Asia ~ in exchange for what are called "pet reindeer". These aren't exactly the same breed as the wild ones but derive from a very long line of domestic reindeer ~ which must necessarily come from the Far East.
In the end, for a variety of reasons, the Sa'ami and all other Europeans have about a 5% East Asian ancestry, and all East Asians have about a 5% European ancestry.
I hope you didn't have the idea the Sa'ami are Asiatic because they are not ~ it's much more likely for an Indo-European to have Asiatic ancestry.
The 20% of Sa'ami who appear to have Asiatic facial features actually show residual features much more typical of our common Cro-Magnon ancestors. In short, REAL WHITE FOLKS got "backward eyes".
It's been within a decade that anthropologists and geologists working together decided that the Ice Age North Atlantic Sea Ice came down as far as the Western European Refugia. That would have been an especially rich seal hunting ground all across the face of the ice all the way to America.
Knowing that it becomes hard to believe the Sa'ami (or proto Sa'ami) wouldn't have trekked the ice across the Atlantic to become what we know as the Clovis Culture.
Rod was possibly good enough to play professional football (soccer) when he was a wee lad. He always comes across as pleasant and charming. He is nice to his ex-wives and they all seem to remain friends.
I used to love watching the Bill Forsynth films about Scotland. Gregory’s Girl with Claire Grogan who sang in a band the did “I Could Be Happy” and a song called Happy Birthday but not the Happy Birthday.
Another one was Comfort and Joy with Bill Paterson. Calre Grogan was in that one too. Local Hero was his big film and one of Burt Lancaster’s last films. If you like Scotland then check them out.
Darker Scottish films with Ewan McGregor include Trainspotting and very creepy but excellent Shallow Grave.
No. From your postings and website referrals, I can see that Sa'ami are "European" although, as you indicate they have a distinct look from other Scandinavians.
I thought perhaps they were part of the pro-to Eurasians that evetually became Jomans and Native Americans.
The 20% of Sa'ami who appear to have Asiatic facial features actually show residual features much more typical of our common Cro-Magnon ancestors. In short, REAL WHITE FOLKS got "backward eyes".
Is this perhaps because of the advantage that an epithelial fold provided against snow blindness ?
This can also be seen in Celts such as the Welsh such Catherine Zeta Jones (before she had her eyes "fixed").
That makes sense that Solutrean/Clovis culture is derived from the Sa'ami.
They brought their birchbark and teepee culture to this continent.
So Hiawatha was a Sa'ami!
Are the Mari of the same ancestry as the Sa'ami, or is their similarity a result of cultural diffusion?
Oh, I've seen "Gregory's Girl". I'll check out his other films.
Grandma was Scotch-Irish, via the great wave that landed in Canada, then her grandfather moved south.
So I have a claim to the MacGregors.
Aye.
After Obama was elected - I was done with TV. It is all trash and it all supports him. I will never go back to it.
Same thing with Hollywood love affair with the marxist.
I prefer Scottish films, German, Italian but not the English ones that push the gay and PC agendas all the time.
Bill Forsyth’s little films are a lot of fun.
The Jomon, Chinese, white people, Sa'ami and a few others all have a common ancestry that spent much of the last Ice Age in South Central Asia.
There were a couple of good interstadials and that common ancestry moved North and then split into two groups, one going West to Europe and the other going East north of the Himalayas to the Far East.
That was about 35,000 years ago ~ when those cave paintings show up.
Once the East Asian branch moved East of the Himalayas and out of the desert country (still present just NW of Peiping) they split into two groups. One group moved on East to settle in the plain between the Huang Ho and the Yangtse. The other group moved to the South East. Over vast amounts of time many of them settled in what is now Japan but then was just an extension of the Asian Mainland into the Pacific.
Eventually those two groups were divided as the ocean rose at the end of the iceage 14,000 years ago. The folks in Japan are who we call the Jomon, and later the Emeshi (who turned into the Samurai under the leadership of an invading Chinese leadership group we today call the Japanese Royal Families and the Daimyo Families).
In one of those quirks of fate the Jomon's relatives had moved to the East Asian Maritimes. When the Medieval Japanese evacuated Hokkaido and the Northern Islands the Jomon-type people in the Maritimes simply moved into the coastal areas of the North and became known as the Ainu. Some Ainu also settled in Taiwan before the Chinese. Apparently more modern Japanese pirates settled there too!
The greater part of the East Asian people settled China so you'll want to see their history. The furthest West Chinese ran a trade route from Siberia to India. They produced Buddha (among others) and ruled much of India for a number of centuries. They acquired all the good lookin' gals in India and consequently ended up looking a tad different than all the other East Asians.
About the time of the start of the Dark Ages they invaded Japan, took over the Chinese rice growing regions (which had been under development for over 1000 years) and began a multicentury war against the Emeshi (the Jomon).
The Cro-Magnons that went West in that interstadial appear to have occupied all of Europe. Most of them were wiped out by the advancing ice and deteriorating climate. Some small populations remained in three Refugia ~ one of which was at the Western end of the Pyranees, on in Sebia and another further South in Italy. There are probably more but we just haven't discovered them yet.
As the ice began melting 14,000 years ago part of the people in the Western Refugia went due North. Part of went East and North East. Part went South to North Africa. Some part of it certainly went far East!
While "trapped" in the refugia all of these populations developed some different characteristics. The Sa'ami, being the ones longest isolated from the others, and having what seems to have been the smallest population, retain many of the ORIGINAL characteristics ~ rounder heads, different eyelids, coloration, and so on. The group with the largest population, those left in what is now Spain and France, diverged the most from the original base (larger populations allow new alleles to propagate more widely). That's where you find the recreation of the Northwestern European Red Hair ~ and possibly even the gene for suppression of pigment production. Blondism arises out of yet other genes and, in most European populations may be of quite recent origin ~ maybe within the last 5000 years ('before which they were all swarthy hairy people looking remarkably like their cousins in India and such).
In the far North where the Sa'ami live blondism arises out of simple selection for a low level of melanin production ~ since you gotta' have all the light skin you can get to produce enough Vitamin D to live there. Other "white" populations, including the Chinese, have genes that actually block melanin production except under certain circumstances ~ like "it's summer and time to tan".
The problem is they can't go back! The trip West is very difficult. The trip East is possible for a guy in a rowboat.
BTW, the pro-Finn side in this debate argues that Sa'ami languages are part of a group better typified by Finnish. There's another school of thought that the Sa'ami languages form two small groups, and that the Finno-Ugric, Hungarian and Estonian languages derive much of their grammatical structure from both ~ in roughly different measures. This is rather like the situation involving the Iroquoian languages ~ the central core warrior elite among the Mingo/Iriquoian ethnicity were tributary to the Huron for several centuries. Words were traded. Grammatical rules were swapped. Accents merged and divided.
The same thing happened when Sa'ami began contact with the more primitive proto-Indo-European tribes in the BC period (way back there).
My personal theory about that period is that the Sa'ami were sufficiently capable in Southern Scandinavia to pretty much chase the proto-Indo-Europeans South of the Carpathians, and maybe even into the Urals.
Through time their presence in a more Southern district gave them access to agricultural advances, and they began to push back.
This doesn't mean war ~ in paleolithic and neolithic societies simply having greater access to local resources gave you an insurmountable reproductive success rate. Those who were better hunters moved North and lost the adantage.
Except for trade these people may have had no other contacts.
In the 1600s the Iroquois took the position of middle-men in the English fur trade. They made the long treks to the interior. In New France, white men played thesame part. We call them Courier du Bois. The lifestyle of the Iroquois and the Courier from about 1650 to 1750 was pretty much identical. I envision the Sa'ami and the proto-Finns being pretty much the same.
Here ya go.
Dennis Sanford is a good guy.
Ancient American Skeleton Has European DNA Link
Some scientists think that the earliest colonizers could have started out somewhere in Europe, not in Asia as previously thought. That idea is rooted in a rare genetic link called haplogroup X - DNA passed down through women that dates back more than 30,000 years.
Recent genetic samples from remains in Illinois show that the rare European DNA was around centuries before European exploration. Today, haplogroup X is found in about 20,000 American Indians.
Do you mean the Maori?
Not that I am aware. “Portugee,” Turk and/or English Lost Colony descendants in addition to native tribes is the usual claim, among the Melungeons and several mixed race tribes such as the Lumbee. Some are more forthcoming about a degree of African ancestry than in the past as well, but not all are. Technically speaking, they’re regarded as being “tri-racial isolate groups.”
I am of Cherokee origin. This is all fascinating.
He told others about it! Fur shur the ancient Peruvian dope dealers who took all that coke to Egypt didn't really tell anybody where they came from ~ or the Egyptians would have found it!
He told others about it! Fur shur the ancient Peruvian dope dealers who took all that coke to Egypt didn't really tell anybody where they came from ~ or the Egyptians would have found it!
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